Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18462 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #768 on: July 28, 2017, 03:51:42 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply very informative and good scriptures but none of them brings out a picture of God destroying people with fire and brimstone dose it.

the day of Gods vengeance on what and whom will it be focused surely on Satan and his angles they are the ones who have led the whole world astray have they not.

You quote   Isa.11:4; many who have been led astray belong to these groups will not God have compassion on them is it not Gods Goal to save as many as possible.

'He That rejecteth Me,
and receives not My words,
hath one that judgeth him:
the word that I have spoken,
the same shall judge him
In that day.'
(John 12:48)

There are proberbly billions who have never heard the gospel surely they have a right to hear it preach properly so they can make a choice of there own free will weather to turn to Christ and be saved or not.

if they do not accept Christs offer then all that remains is the second death this may well be jest a normal death.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hello Dave (@davetaff)

All who have not heard the gospel of God concerning His Son, will be judged justly, when God shall judge the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Rom.2:16)  They will be judged according to their deeds, either by the law of Moses, (Jew), or by the law of conscience, (Gentile). (Rom.2:6-16)

* Many will be granted life in that day.

* As for those who have been misguided, and have got caught up in false doctrines, they are in God's hands, He knows those who are His, and is able to rescue and to save.  It is not His will that any should perish, but that all should come to a knowledge of His saving grace.  That is why this day of grace has extended so long. (2 Pet.3:9) -  Opportunity has been given, and given and given again!

Praise His Holy Name!

* God is dealing with Satan, the False Prophet, with Babylon and the Beast, and those who worshipped the Beast, in the judgements of Revelation: with wickedness and ungodliness, and the nations who rebelled and followed Satan into battle against the saints.

* As death is the absence of life, so those who have part in the second death, die again finally and absolutely, with no hope of resurrection: their bodies being destroyed as described.

* What more can I say, Dave? Those things that are hard to be understood, which we cannot begin to conceive of, we must leave with Him, mustn't we? And trust Him in all things.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #769 on: July 28, 2017, 05:01:34 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your excellent post to which I agree in keeping with the God of Love who will do everything in his power to save as many as possible those who are not saved will only have themselves to blame.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #770 on: July 29, 2017, 02:50:54 PM »
[size =10pt]'And I saw a great white throne'

* This throne is called GREAT, distinguishing it from other thrones mentioned in Revelation. The thrones mentioned in Rev.4:2-6, were in heaven, while this throne is seen in the last vision which is upon the earth, as were the thrones of Rev.20:4.  This throne is 'great', not only because of the occassion, and the greatness of it's power and authority, but also WHITE, indicating it's purity, holiness and righteousness.

* There are no thunders here, no lightening, no threatening, no voices heard.

'And Him that sat thereon,
from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;
and no place was found for them'


* Is this the moment of 2 Peter 3:10-12?
* It is 'the day of God'!

Praise His Holy Name

In Christ Jesus
Cariad[/size]

This is the last of the five final judgements. In this judgement 'the rest of the dead' of Rev.20:5,  are to be raised for judgment. This is the second of two resurrections associated with the 1,000 year reign. This takes place at the end of the 1,000 years.  These are to be judged according to their works.

'And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
and the books were opened:
and another book was opened,
which is the book of life:
and the dead were judged out of those things
which were written in the books,
according to their works.'

(Rev.20:12)

* Evidence is presented from the books, to show why the names of those being judged were not written in The Book of Life.

'And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;
and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:
and they were judged every man according to their works.'

(Rev.20:13)

* This includes the buried (hell or grave) and the unburied (Death) dead.  This is a resurrection of condemnation.

Sober subject!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad



Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #771 on: July 29, 2017, 03:29:17 PM »
'And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death,
and whosoever was not found written in The Book of Life
was cast into the lake of fire.'

(Rev.20:14,15)

* Death and Hell (Hades, or the grave) have fulfilled their purpose, so they are to be destroyed, before the Kingdom of righteousness can be set up.

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Cariad


Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #772 on: July 29, 2017, 04:28:30 PM »
Hi Chris
Sorry for the long paste but could not split it up.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I believe these are the bride of Christ this is the marriage of the lamb and also Man in Gods image.

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Dose this mean that all those who have died up to the point of his coming will remain dead.
 
Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Our aim is to be part of the first resurrection how wonderful that will be

 
Rev 20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8  And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9  And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Here we have the final test we have to remain faithful to God and his Christ

Rev 20:10  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

As you know I believe all those who have bean baptised with fire are the lake of fire

 
Rev 20:11  And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12  And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This section gives us insight into the second resurrection and the judgement I take it to mean these are all  the ones who had died up to the coming of our lord except those of the first resurrection.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #773 on: July 29, 2017, 05:28:29 PM »
Hi Chris
Sorry for the long post but could not split it up.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I believe these are the bride of Christ this is the marriage of the lamb and also Man in Gods image.

Hi Dave,

Those referred to in Rev.20:4, are the 'Overcomers', but this does not exclude others of the same precious faith, e.g., Matthew 19:27,28:-

'We have forsaken all, and followed Thee, what shall we have therefore? 
And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you,
that ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration
when the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of His glory,
ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israe
l."'


* Remember also, Rev. 6:9-11, and those who were slain for the Word of God: to whom white robes were given; who were told to rest 'a little season', until their fellow-servants should be killed as they had been.

* Compare, Daniel 7:13, 9,10,22-27, with Rev.1:7, Rev.20:11,12,4-6.

* Look back also to the basis for the millennial kingdom and the reign of Christ in Exodus 19:3-6. Also Malachi 3:17,18; 1 Peter 2:5,9; Rev.1:5,6; Rev.5:9,10; Isaiah 61:5,6; Mal.2:7; Isaiah 2:3; Rev.2:26,27.

Quote
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Dose this mean that all those who have died up to the point of his coming will remain dead.

* These two resurrections spoken of in Rev.20:5, are not the first of all the resurrections spoken of in Scripture, for as you will know there are other resurrections spoken of in relation to those who are saved by God's grace, in Christ Jesus, e.g., 1 Thess.4:16.
 
Quote
Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Our aim is to be part of the first resurrection how wonderful that will be

* That is not the resurrection that I look for, Dave, for I await our Lord's appearing in glory, when I, with the other members of His Body will appear with Him there. (Col.3:4)

* Psalm 49:14, speaks of the righteous dead, who should have 'dominion' over the rest of the dead, 'in the morning' of this resurrection. The Lord speaks of it as, 'the resurrection of the just' (Luke 14:14), and 'The resurrection of life' (John 5:29), and 'The resurrection from (among) the dead' (Luke 20:34-36).  Paul spoke of it as, 'The resurrection of the the just' (Acts 24:15), for which the twelve tribes hoped, according to 'the promise made to the Fathers' (Acts 26:6-8).  In Dan.12:2 it is spoken of as a resurrection 'to everlasting life', in which 'many' (not all) have part, and 'awake'.  Martha also hoped for it (John 11:24).

Quote
Rev 20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8  And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9  And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Here we have the final test we have to remain faithful to God and his Christ

* The Church which is the Body of Christ will not be there, Dave, for their resurrection, 'far above all', will have taken place well before these events take place.

Quote
Rev 20:10  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

As you know I believe all those who have bean baptised with fire are the lake of fire

* What is your basis for believing this to be true, Dave? Who are these people? And how can they accomplish this?

Quote
Rev 20:11  And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12  And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This section gives us insight into the second resurrection and the judgement I take it to mean these are all  the ones who had died up to the coming of our lord except those of the first resurrection.

* Not necessarily. It would not include the Church, or Israel, or the elect remnant, nor the beasts referred to in Rev.13 & 17

Thank you. Dave.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #774 on: July 30, 2017, 04:22:37 PM »
Hi Chris
thank you for your post not sure I understand everything you say you seem to be saying that the church will not be on earth to reign with Christ is that Right.

I believe there are only two resurrection the first when Christ returns in his glory and all those who belong to him will be gathered  to him this is the marriage of the lamb.

then he will reign on earth with his bride for 1000 years all other rule will be put down who will he rule over I believe it will be all those who are alive at his coming this is why they will need to be tested when satan is released for a short time.

then we have the second resurrection these are all those who died before his coming in glory they will be judged on what they have done. we know they will have a righteous judge.
 
you asked me
Quote
As you know I believe all those who have bean baptised with fire are the lake of fire

* What is your basis for believing this to be true, Dave? Who are these people? And how can they accomplish this?   

It's something I believe what else would be the purpose of the baptism of fire consider all those who have been baptised with fire is we put them all together they will become a lake of fire would they not.

the other alternative is a literal lake of fire in to which God will be throwing people including maybe some of my relatives and that I can never believe of the God of Love its a contradiction.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #775 on: July 31, 2017, 01:07:53 PM »
Quote
@davetaff: Reply #774 
Hi Chris
thank you for your post. not sure I understand everything you say. you seem to be saying that the church will not be on earth to reign with Christ is that Right.

Hello Dave,

I am talking about the Church which is the Body of Christ, which has a resurrection hope described in Colossians 3:3,4:-

'For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.
'
(Col.3:3,4)

* God has so identified the members of the Body of Christ with Christ Himself, that in His estimation we are already raised with Him and seated with Him at God's right hand (in spirit).  How wonderful this is, isn't it Dave?  When the risen Christ is manifested in glory, so will the members of His Body be.

Quote
Dave:
I believe there are only two resurrections: the first when Christ returns i

then he will reign on earth with his bride for 1000 years all other rule will be put down who will he rule over I believe it will be all those who are alive at his coming this is why they will need to be tested when satan is released for a short time.

then we have the second resurrection these are all those who died before his coming in glory they will be judged on what they have done. we know they will have a righteous judge.

* There are two resurrections associated with the 1,000 year reign of the Overcomers alone (Rev.20:4-6), the resurrection of the Just and the unjust: so there must be more than two, to accommodate the Thessalonian hope (1 Thess.4:16) for example.

Quote
Quote: As you know I believe all those who have been baptised with fire are the lake of fire
* What is your basis for believing this to be true, Dave? Who are these people? And how can they accomplish this? 


It's something I believe what else would be the purpose of the baptism of fire consider all those who have been baptised with fire is we put them all together they will become a lake of fire would they not.

the other alternative is a literal lake of fire in to which God will be throwing people including maybe some of my relatives and that I can never believe of the God of Love its a contradiction.

Love and Peace
Dave


* With the words, 'the baptism of fire', I believe you must be referring to, Matt.3:11,12 & Luke 3:16,17: if so, you really need to look at what this is referring to, Dave.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad