Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18413 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #760 on: July 26, 2017, 08:08:13 PM »
'And the Devil that deceived them
was cast into a lake of fire and brimstone,
where both the Beast and the False Prophet are,
and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever'


* The lake of fire was prepared for Satan and His angels. (Matt.25:41]

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #761 on: July 26, 2017, 09:06:00 PM »
'And I saw a great white throne'

* This throne is called GREAT, distinguishing it from other thrones mentioned in Revelation. The thrones mentioned in Rev.4:2-6, were in heaven, while this throne is seen in the last vision which is upon the earth, as were the thrones of Rev.20:4.  This throne is 'great', not only because of the occassion, and the greatness of it's power and authority, but also WHITE, indicating it's purity, holiness and righteousness.

* There are no thunders here, no lightening, no threatening, no voices heard.

'And Him that sat thereon,
from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;
and no place was found for them'


* Is this the moment of 2 Peter 3:10-12?
* It is 'the day of God'!

Praise His Holy Name

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline Rose Anna

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #762 on: July 27, 2017, 10:39:01 AM »
Hi @davetaff @Cariad
Sorry I didn't post much in the last few days but I read the posts.

Regarding the finality of the devil in Revelation s. It is a bit confusing because in Ezekiel28 there is a description of him no longer existing. Yet in Revelation s being in torment forever.
Having looked at all the scriptures possible and praying, really seeking God, I can't see a contradiction but rather its looking at the interpretation and they compliment each other.
I agree with you @Cariad
I've explored this subject thoroughly and sincerely more in regarding the finality of the unsaved and believe they perish.
Theres lots of disagreement I know but if those who disputed this just quietened down and explored all the scriptures possible, asking God for the truth, they might be surprised.
I was just open to what the truth was and that is ultimately how we find Jesus. In the same way in seeking the finality, however unpalatable it was.
As I have written thoroughly about already.

Regarding Revelations and changing the subject. I spoke to someone the other day, who mentioned the seven churches that Jesus judged. He said good and bad to them and they were about the time John had his vision. It was suggested that they were prophetic for seven ages. All I could relate to strongly was God spitting out the church, for lukewarmness and so they could make or break their relationship with Him.
My friend said the eighth church is when Jesus is with His people, and the church is perfected at His coming.
As eight symbolises infinity therefore eternity.
Not sure though that His people will be called church then. Probably will be called the bride as discussed here.

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #763 on: July 27, 2017, 05:45:31 PM »

... I spoke to someone the other day, who mentioned the seven churches that Jesus judged. He said good and bad to them and they were about the time John had his vision. It was suggested that they were prophetic for seven ages. All I could relate to strongly was God spitting out the church, for lukewarmness and so they could make or break their relationship with Him.
My friend said the eighth church is when Jesus is with His people, and the church is perfected at His coming.
As eight symbolises infinity therefore eternity.
Not sure though that His people will be called church then. Probably will be called the bride as discussed here.

Hello Rose Anna,

It is good to hear from you today.

Regarding the churches referred to in the early chapters of Revelation, and the theory your friend presented to you: as the visions received by John represent happenings which take place in the day of the Lord (Rev.1:10), which has yet to come.  I can't see that your friends conception of it can be right.

Yet I know that many view the events of Revelation from an historical perspective: however I believe it must be interpreted within the confines of the day John is taken to in spirit, which is the day of the Lord, or 'The Lord's Day'. I also believe that it is Israel related, and the fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #764 on: July 27, 2017, 05:47:18 PM »
Hi Dave,

God's reason for letting Satan loose to deceive the nations will be to fulfil His purpose, and how He  finally destroys the nations, whose object is to destroy the saints, is by fire from heaven. 

This cannot be sugar coated, or made more palatable to our sensibilities, for the fact is that outside of Christ, God is a God of righteous judgement.  We have only known His grace and love, in Christ, but the God of the Old Testament is the same as the New, and will not condone sin, or spare the ungodly.

It is wrong to water-down the Word of God, either to make God into an image of our making, or to make it fit our own particular theories.  God's Word is there to be believed, not re-interpreted to suit our purpose.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Hi Chris
Thank you for your posts of course all evil will be destroyed that's as clear as crystal in scripture the whole of creation has bean building up to this moment.

But what form will this destruction take earlier on we read of the rider on a white horse out of who's mouth came a two edged sword with which he would smite the nations this sword is the word of God.

we are killed with the word of God and reborn into the body of Christ and we put on Christs righteousness is this not the destruction of evil?.

and the other thing that worries me is if at any time I want to see any or all of these evil people destroyed in fire and brimstone am I not guilty of murder by thought and what happens to Love thy enemies.

Sorry to be a pain.

Love and peace
dave 

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #765 on: July 27, 2017, 06:27:25 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your posts of course all evil will be destroyed that's as clear as crystal in scripture the whole of creation has bean building up to this moment.

But what form will this destruction take earlier on we read of the rider on a white horse out of who's mouth came a two edged sword with which he would smite the nations this sword is the word of God.

we are killed with the word of God and reborn into the body of Christ and we put on Christs righteousness is this not the destruction of evil?.

and the other thing that worries me is if at any time I want to see any or all of these evil people destroyed in fire and brimstone am I not guilty of murder by thought and what happens to Love thy enemies.

Sorry to be a pain.

Love and peace
dave

Hi Dave,

I do not consider you a pain.  I thank you also for bearing with me, my friend. Let me consider the illustration you have given and come back to you, if God be willing.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Cariad


Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #766 on: July 27, 2017, 08:18:55 PM »
... ...But what form will this destruction take earlier on we read of the rider on a white horse out of who's mouth came a two edged sword with which he would smite the nations this sword is the word of God. ... '

Hello again, Dave,

As we know, 'The day of the Lord', is a day of judgement: NOW is the day of salvation: TODAY the door is open for all to enter in and be saved from the wrath to come, on the basis of the redeeming work of Christ.

Praise God!

The day in which the rider rides forth (Rev.1:16, Rev.19:11-16), is the day of the vengeance of our God.  The sword in His mouth will be the Word of God, yes, but it will be used to condemn the ungodly  (see John 12:48 and context).

(Sword: Isa.11:4; Isa.49:2; 2 Thess 2:8; Rev.2:12,16; Rev.19:15,21)

'He That rejecteth Me,
and receives not My words,
hath one that judgeth him:
the word that I have spoken,
the same shall judge him
In that day.'

(John 12:48)

In Christ Jesus
Cariad





Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #767 on: July 28, 2017, 02:42:11 PM »
Hello again, Dave,

As we know, 'The day of the Lord', is a day of judgement: NOW is the day of salvation: TODAY the door is open for all to enter in and be saved from the wrath to come, on the basis of the redeeming work of Christ.

Praise God!

The day in which the rider rides forth (Rev.1:16, Rev.19:11-16), is the day of the vengeance of our God.  The sword in His mouth will be the Word of God, yes, but it will be used to condemn the ungodly  (see John 12:48 and context).

(Sword: Isa.11:4; Isa.49:2; 2 Thess 2:8; Rev.2:12,16; Rev.19:15,21)

'He That rejecteth Me,
and receives not My words,
hath one that judgeth him:
the word that I have spoken,
the same shall judge him
In that day.'

(John 12:48)

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply very informative and good scriptures but none of them brings out a picture of God destroying people with fire and brimstone dose it.

the day of Gods vengeance on what and whom will it be focused surely on Satan and his angles they are the ones who have led the whole world astray have they not.

You quote   Isa.11:4; many who have been led astray belong to these groups will not God have compassion on them is it not Gods Goal to save as many as possible.

'He That rejecteth Me,
and receives not My words,
hath one that judgeth him:
the word that I have spoken,
the same shall judge him
In that day.'
(John 12:48)

There are proberbly billions who have never heard the gospel surely they have a right to hear it preach properly so they can make a choice of there own free will weather to turn to Christ and be saved or not.

if they do not accept Christs offer then all that remains is the second death this may well be jest a normal death.

Love and Peace
Dave