Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18408 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #744 on: July 21, 2017, 11:45:32 AM »
Hi
It's some time since we visited this page hope Rose has had a good holiday.
I started reading Rev 20 again to refresh my memory and started to wonder about the first 3 verse's.

Revelation 20

 1  And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

 2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

What struck me was if satan was so easily dealt with why was it not done much earlier even in Eden.

The only thing I can think of is it must have to do with Gods over all plan for mankind it would have to do with our ability to love from the heart in the face of all adversity.

Then I keep getting the parable of the prodigal son coming into my mind can it be relevant did Satan receive the earth as his possession but wasted it and it has been given to Christ.

Is his eternal torment looking at and realising everything he has lost and not being able to do anything about it.

Then after 1000 years he will be released for a short time I think this is to test the love of those who have come through the millennium.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Rose Anna

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #745 on: July 21, 2017, 02:56:50 PM »
Hi @davetaff
Hope all is well with you. Thank you for your contributions.
I will be at work soon. Overtired at the moment.

Offline John

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #746 on: July 21, 2017, 07:11:06 PM »
Dave,
          It is important to remember that John is giving us word pictures of things he cannot comprehend.
There is nothing in this passage that tells that this has happened, is going to happen.
We all believe that it has happened, because of Calvary.

As for a similarity with the prodigal son, there is none. The son realised he'd made a mistake and turned back to his father. There is no sign that the devil knows he has lost.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #747 on: July 22, 2017, 02:55:58 PM »
Dave,
          It is important to remember that John is giving us word pictures of things he cannot comprehend.
There is nothing in this passage that tells that this has happened, is going to happen.
We all believe that it has happened, because of Calvary.

As for a similarity with the prodigal son, there is none. The son realised he'd made a mistake and turned back to his father. There is no sign that the devil knows he has lost.

Hi John
Thank you for your reply the verses I have quoted are what will happen at the beginning of the millenium when satan will be chained and put into the bottomless pit.
Satan was cast down to earth from heaven at Calvary like you say and has been doing his best to turn mankind from God ever since.
As for the prodigal son Satan is one of Gods sons who has gone astray dose that mean God has stopped loving him what about Love thy enemy don't  you think God would Love his enemies after all we were all Gods enemies at one time but God sent his son to die for us.
Is there a limit on the power of the blood to forgive and to cleans will satan realise his mistake and return to the father his eternal torment being how much he has lost by rebelling.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #748 on: July 22, 2017, 03:43:49 PM »
@John
@davetaff

Ezekiel 28:16-19, proclaims Satan's doom.  So yes, Satan must know his end.  These are the main points:-

1) I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God.
I will destroy thee, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.


2) I will cast thee to the earth.
I will lay thee before kings.


3) I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee and it shall devour thee.
I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth.


4) Thou shalt be a terror.
Never shalt thou be any more.


* The anointed cherub loses his glory and His office.  He is cast to the earth as a spectacle before kings.  He is reduced to ashes (Malachi 4:3), by the fire that is brought forth from the midst of himself. The effect of His destruction upon others is seen in point number four, it will produce terror in them.  He will be no more.

* This is yet future, see Revelation 12:9,

'The great Dragon was cast out,
The old serpent being called devil, and, Satan;
he deceiving the whole habitable world
was cast out onto the earth,
and His angels were cast out with Him.'

(LITV)

* In Rev. 20:1-3, at the beginning of the millennial reign He is taken and bound for 1,000 years. Yet at the end of that period he will be released again, to try the nations which are feigning obedience.

* He was lifted up with pride, and he slandered God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #749 on: July 23, 2017, 02:53:43 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply It made me wonder about the cherub I looked it up in strongs but it did not give any explanation there was one on each side of the mercy seat but these were only statues so it dose not tell us a lot.

It seams all the explanations I found were man made ideas of what they may be what I am trying to get at is according to the verses you quoted a cherub will be destroyed implying it is satan.

But in revelations it says.
Rev 20:10  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
   

So it seams that satan will exist in eternity even if it is in torment  going back to the two cherubs on the mercy seat do you think that they could represent Christ and satan that's  just a thought I am not stating it is so.

Sorry to be a pain its just there seams to be a contradiction here.

Love and Peace
Dave





   

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #750 on: July 23, 2017, 08:33:35 PM »
Hi Dave, (@davetaff)

What is sure is, there are no contradictions in Scripture.  They only seem so because our knowledge or understanding is faulty.   This statement is not directed at you personally, but to all of us who encounter what seems to be a contradiction.

Within the love and grace of Christ our Saviour,
Cariad




Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #751 on: July 23, 2017, 10:25:18 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply It made me wonder about the cherub I looked it up in Strongs but it did not give any explanation there was one on each side of the mercy seat but these were only statues so it dose not tell us a lot.

It seams all the explanations I found were man made ideas of what they may be what I am trying to get at is according to the verses you quoted a cherub will be destroyed implying it is Satan.

But in it says
Rev 20:10  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,
where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So it seams that satan will exist in eternity even if it is in torment  going back to the two cherubs on the mercy seat do you think that they could represent Christ and satan that's  just a thought I am not stating it is so.
 
Sorry to be a pain its just there seams to be a contradiction here.   
'By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence,and thou hast sinned:
therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God:
and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub (H3742=kerub), from the midst of the stones of fire.'

(Ezek.28:16)

Hi Dave, (@davetaff)

* Look at Ezek.28:14,

'Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth;
and I have set thee so:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;
thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.'


* The margin of my Bible tells me that the word, 'cherub', can only refer to a supernatural being, overshadowing and protecting, 'the world that then was' (2 Peter 3:6), or, 'Eden', which is referred to in the previous verse (Ezek.28:13). God appointed him as such ('I have set thee so' [v.14]).

* Satan was in Eden, as we know, and his role as covering cherub was to overshadow or protect it along with the world that then was. (See Isaiah 14:12-15).  Yet he did not fulfil that function in the garden of Eden, did he? On the contrary, he sought to destroy what God had made.  What produced this change?

'How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.'


* Satan was lifted up with pride, and sought to be like the most High:, and he slandered God. His end is yet to come. Ezekiel 28:19 is clear that Satan will be no more, he will not exist in eternity.

* 'For ever and ever,' in Revelation 20:10, that you quote, does not mean eternity, for the word used is 'aion' (G165) it is 'age-long', therefore it is limited to the age then existing. (look up the usage of G165)
-------------------------------------

* The cherubs on the mercy seat (Exodus 25:17-22), were made out of the same piece of gold that the mercy seat is made of, they therefore represent the guarding of the hope that this seat signifies, of atonement and it's association with, 'the hope of Israel', with the blood sprinkled mercy seat, and the rent veil (Heb.10:10,20).

* Cherubim are celestial, or real spirit beings, the embodiment of creation's hope as expressed in Romans 8:19-23. See the link below, @ App.41:-   https://levendwater.org/companion/append41.html
 https://levendwater.org/companion/index_companion.html

* This is the best I can do: but a study of the cherabim would be a good one to do some time, in order to truly see the part they play in God's purpose.

*  Ezekiel 28:18,19 and Revelation 20:10, record Satan's end, and they are complimentary rather than contradictory, I feel.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


https://levendwater.org/companion/append41.html
https://levendwater.org/companion/index_companion.html