Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18391 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #696 on: April 23, 2017, 11:40:13 PM »
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@davetaff:
Hi Chris
Thank you for your post and your patience I found your reference to the Lords day very interesting brought more strange thought to my mind (sorry)

Is the Lord's day the millennium 1000 years?

Hi Dave,

* 'The Lord's day' is the whole of the period covered by the visions of Revelation, I believe. 

* Regarding the term, 'The Lord's Day' itself: John tells us, in (Rev 1:10),  'I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day' .  In the Hebrew language (I am reliably informed) there is no adjective for, 'Lord's'; and therefore the only way of expressing, 'the Lord's day', in the Hebrew language, is by using two nouns, 'the day of the Lord, which means equally, 'the Lord's day' (ie., Jehovah's day). In the Greek language both ways can be used, but the same 'day' meant, there is no difference. John was ' in the spirit on the Lord's day' (see Ezekiel 11:24)
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... for a day in the physical world our lord rose on the third day and it was in the dark part of the day as I understand it the Jewish day started at sundown so we don't know at what time of the day our Lord arose.

In the spiritual world he will also arise on the third day 3000 years after his ascension which  of course is about now and again he will arise in the dark part of the day these words come to mind.

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

so will he arise but we won't see him straight away but he will take command behind the scenes moving all the earthly powers to fulfil the first part of revelations bearing in mind the following.

Psa 2:9  Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

 Rev 2:27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 Rev 19:15  And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I had always thought of the millennium as a peaceful place but now i think it will be anything but until towards the end maybe.
Tthe more I think about it the more it seems right to me.

Love and Peace
Dave

* Yes, the only place where there will be peace when the millennium takes place will be within the perameters of Zion, the Beloved city, and for Israel in, 'the camp of the saints' (Rev. 20:9) The nations around it will be judged.

* Yet the reign of Christ will last for much longer than the 1,000 years of the millennium, won't it? (see Dan.2:44; Dan 7:14 & 27; 1 Cor.15:25,26), it is only the reign of the 'Overcomers' that will end, (Rev.20:1-10)

* The day of the Lord will be followed by the day of God: just as David's kingdom (characterised by war and the presence of enemies) is followed by that of Solomon's kingdom of peace.

Praise God!

* Please search the Scriptures to see if these things are so, for we are all capable of making mistakes.

Thanking you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #697 on: April 24, 2017, 02:46:59 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for the above a lot to take on board all good stuff and a blessing to many I would like explore this thought of the book of revelations being about the millennium.

Hard to know where to start it is a huge subject first I would like to say I believe it is the last day of creation the seventh day the sabbath rest of God the father that is of course if we accept that this creation started with Noah.

Maybe these words of St Paul may be of help

 1Co 15:24  Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

Is this Paul telling us what will happen in the millennium it will be a time of trouble and conflict at least in the beginning until Christ reveals himself and every eye will see.
The only problem now is do we have to go back to the beginning of revelations and view  it from a different perspective.

 You said
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* Yes, the only place where there will be peace when the millennium takes place will be within the perameters of Zion, the Beloved city, and for Israel in, 'the camp of the saints' (Rev. 20:9) The nations around it will be judged.   
   

Yes I agree I also thought when i read you post on turkey that with all that's  happening in that part of the world there is very little mention of Israel in the news do you think the protection has started I do hope so.

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Yet the reign of Christ will last for much longer than the 1,000 years of the millennium, won't it? (see Dan.2:44; Dan 7:14 & 27; 1 Cor.15:25,26), it is only the reign of the 'Overcomers' that will end, (Rev.20:1-10)
   

Not to sure about this if Christ hands everything back to the Father who will be in charge?

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The day of the Lord will be followed by the day of God: just as David's kingdom (characterised by war and the presence of enemies) is followed by that of Solomon's kingdom of peace.
   

I think this answers the above question I think we have a lot to learn from the first three kings of Israel I think Saul represents Israel.

Love and Peace
Dave





Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #698 on: April 25, 2017, 11:23:25 AM »
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@davetaff:
Hi Chris
I would like explore this thought of the book of revelations being about the millennium.

Hard to know where to start it is a huge subject first I would like to say I believe it is the last day of creation the seventh day the sabbath rest of God the father that is of course if we accept that this creation started with Noah.

Forgive me, Dave,
 For I did not mean to give the impression that the book of Revelation is all about the millennial reign.  It is part of the whole yes, but it is the term, 'The day of the Lord', or, 'The Lord's day' which applies to the book as a whole and not the millennial reign itself.

* I can sympathise with you, when you say that it is hard to know where to start, for it is indeed such a complex subject, isn't it?  We can only tackle it by breaking it down into manageable portions. :D
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Maybe these words of St Paul may be of help

1Co 15:24  Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;
when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

Is this Paul telling us what will happen in the millennium it will be a time of trouble and conflict at least in the beginning until Christ reveals himself and every eye will see.
The only problem now is do we have to go back to the beginning of revelations and view  it from a different perspective.
* I think we should carry on to the end, and then perhaps stand back and review the whole at that time, Dave.
* The reference you have given from 1 Corinthians 15 (above) is beautifully straight forward isn't it, uncomplicated, and kind to our finite minds.

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You said
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Cariad:
* Yes, the only place where there will be peace when the millennium takes place will be within the perameters of Zion, the Beloved city, and for Israel in, 'the camp of the saints' (Rev. 20:9) The nations around it will be judged.
   
Yes I agree I also thought when i read your post on Turkey that with all that's  happening in that part of the world there is very little mention of Israel in the news. Do you think the protection has started? I do hope so.
* I can't even begin to unravel the events of this present time, Dave, so much is happening, so many countries coming into the mix.
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Cariad:
Yet the reign of Christ will last for much longer than the 1,000 years of the millennium, won't it? (see Dan.2:44; Dan 7:14 & 27; 1 Cor.15:25,26), it is only the reign of the 'Overcomers' that will end, (Rev.20:1-10)
Not to sure about this if Christ hands everything back to the Father who will be in charge?

* God will be, 'all in all' then, won?t He, Dave.

Praise His Name!

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Cariad
The day of the Lord will be followed by the day of God: just as David's kingdom (characterised by war and the presence of enemies) is followed by that of Solomon's kingdom of peace.
I think this answers the above question I think we have a lot to learn from the first three kings of Israel I think Saul represents Israel.
*  Yes, a knowledge of the reign of King David, and Solomon would perhaps bring light, but at present I do not feel able to approach it, or thoughts regarding Noah, that you mention either, for they have not figured in my thinking in relation to these things.

Thank you Dave,
With love in Christ Jesus
Cariad

PS:
[I have deleted and saved my intervening posts,
to let your reply follow the one you are answering,
in order to avoid confusion, I shall re-enter it later,
God willing
]

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #699 on: April 25, 2017, 11:35:10 AM »
'... ... I heard a great voice
of much people in heaven, saying,
"Alleluia: Salvation, and glory
and honour, and power,
unto the Lord our God:
For true and righteous are His judgements:'


Hello again,

Here in Rev.19:1, we have the first usage of the word, 'Alleluia', in the New Testament. The first occurence of it in the Old Testament is in Psalm 104:35, but translated, 'Praise ye THE LORD'(KJV).

'Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth
And let the wicked be no more,
Bless thou the Lord, O my soul,
(ie., My whole being)
Praise ye THE LORD.'

* Neither of these utterances are spoken in the age of grace: here is God's judgement in both cases, bringing forth praise, in the word, 'Alleluia': each connected as they are with the overthrow of the wicked.  The one before the age of grace, and the other after it has come to an end.

* We truly are living in the age of grace.  Doesn't the linking of these two verses emphasise this fact! How grateful I am that God's righteousness was revealed in the gospel concerning His Son.  How very necessary His death was: to shield us from the judgement of such a Holy God; before whose light no man outside of Christ may stand without being consumed in that day. We tend to overlook God's Holiness, in remembering His Love. 

* To think that we who have been brought into Christ, by God's Grace; have been made meet to partake of the inheritance of the saints in that same all knowing brilliant consuming, Holy light. That in fulfilling the will of His Father: dying in our place and subsequently rising from the dead; The Lord Jesus Christ alone, Holy and Undefiled as He is: was able to save us from God's wrath; and enable God to give us: sinners though we are; the right to call Him, 'Abba, Father!'  Oh how much the Father loves us! He, in the person of His Son, took the penalty of sin upon Himself: and bore it to the cross!  For we could not save ourselves.  He truly is our SAVIOUR.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #700 on: April 25, 2017, 02:34:17 PM »
Hi Chris
thank you for your post good stuff you said

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I think we should carry on to the end, and then perhaps stand back and review the whole at that time,   

I think this is a good idea we don't have to far to go although I suppose we have only scratched the surface as for the millennium do you think it would be better to start a new thread devoted just to it.

so moving on I think these verses from Rev 19 are worth a good read.

Rev 19:2  For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Rev 19:3  And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
Rev 19:4  And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Rev 19:5  And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
Rev 19:6  And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Here we have what believers have been waiting for since the beginning for God to reign over the whole world oh to be part of that great multitude shouting alleluia.

do you think that the  Lord God omnipotent  is Christ or the father is it Christ taking charge in the millennium or when he hands everything back to the father.

Love and Peace
Dave 

   


Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #701 on: April 25, 2017, 07:54:19 PM »
Hello Dave,

The subject of the Millennial reign comes up in Rev.20, so I don't think we need to treat it as a separate issue.  We can spend as long as is necessary on it then, can't we?

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #702 on: May 08, 2017, 05:06:53 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your reply we are now coming to the part believers have been waiting for

Rev 19:7  Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9  And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

here we have the completion of creation the joining together of the man and the woman the creation of man in Gods image how wonderful is that.
who are those who are called to the marriage supper they seam to be separate from the wife don't they can they be the children I was thinking of those fed on milk what do you think.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #703 on: May 09, 2017, 10:21:46 AM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your reply we are now coming to the part believers have been waiting for

Rev 19:7  Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9  And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

here we have the completion of creation the joining together of the man and the woman the creation of man in Gods image how wonderful is that.
who are those who are called to the marriage supper they seam to be separate from the wife don't they can they be the children I was thinking of those fed on milk what do you think.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hi Dave,

It will certainly be momentous, both for the Lamb, the Lamb's wife, and for the guests at the wedding.  The Old Testament has many references to the marriage between the Lord and His People Israel.  Such as Isaiah 54:5 & 8.

'Thy Maker is thy husband;
The Lord of hosts is His Name,
And thy Redeemed the Holy One of Israel.
The God of the whole earth shall He be called.
For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken
and grieved is spirit,
and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, dairy thy God.
For a small moment have I forsaken thee:
but witg great mercies will I gather thee.
In a little wrath I had my face from thee,
but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on the,
dairy the Lord, Thy Redeemer.'

(Isaiah 54:5-8)

Also in Isaiah 62:4,5:-

'Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken,
neither shall thy land be any more termed Desolate:
but thou shalt be called Hephzibah
(ie.,my delight is in her)
For the Lord delighted in thee,
and Thy land shall be married.
for as a young man matriarch a virgin,
so shall thy sons possess thee;
and as the bridegroom rejoicing over the bride,
so shall thy God rejoice over thee''


The 'wife' is earthly (Rev.19)
The 'Bride' is heavenly (Rev.21)

* The marriage of the One is on earth (though rejoiced over in heaven beforehand), and is consummated on the earth for 1,000 years.  All earthly, or mortal relationships expire along with the earth, before the other, the heavenly relationships, are entered into.  So, in understanding Rev.19, of Israel, and Rev.21 of the Elect Remnant, there is neither 'polygamy' on the one hand or 'divorce' on the other.

* It is important to take note of the various callings:

1) There is the 'earthly' calling, which all of Israel shares, which is the Wife of Rev.19 ('the sand' of Gen.13:16) ; and,
2) there is the 'heavenly' calling, of an elect remnant of Israel - the Bride of Rev.21:9 ('The stars', of Gen.15:5); and
3) there is the distinct calling of the Church of God - which is 'The Christ' (ie., The Mystery).

* These three distinct callings have their separate 'standings'; their different hopes, different promises, and different destinies. These callings have to be differentiated, otherwise confusion and misapplication will result.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad