Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18367 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #688 on: April 18, 2017, 06:48:07 PM »
'After These things
I saw, and lo, a great multitude,
Which no one was able to number,
Out of every nation,
And of all tribes and peoples,
and tongues, ... ... '

(Rev.7:9a)

Hi Dave, (@davetaff)

See Gen 10:5, 20,31.  Dan.3:4,5.  Dan.4:1.  Dan.6:25

' ... standing before the throne,
and before the Lamb,
arrayed with white robes,
and Palm branches in their hands.'

(Rev.7:9b)

* These are indeed a company of Gentiles. Praise God!
Unlike the precise numbering of the Israelites in Rev.7:1-8, these, 'no one was able to number'.

* Here we are taken, in this vision, (in Heaven), on to the end: we have moved on beyond the events of Matthew 24 & 25. 

* I had a feeling you would come back to this subject of, 'the great multitude', Dave. I concentrated on Rev.19, but my thoughts were straying here too.

* Here in Rev.7, we have a precisely numbered company of Jews; and, then a company of Gentiles which are innumerable. This very separation of Jew from Gentile shows that this is not the Church of God, which is composed of Jew and Gentile united as one Body, 'in Christ'.

* The fact that they, 'stood before the throne', and not, 'upon it', is another indicator that this is not the Church of God.  They share the same salvation, on the basis of the sacrifice of Christ, that blessed Lamb of God: but they have come through the great tribulation; and their hope and sphere of blessing is quite different to our own.

* In Rev.7:10, '... they cry with a loud voice, saying, "salvation to our God That sitteth upon the Throne, and to the Lamb'.  They praise God, Who had brought them through the Great Tribulation: had saved them out of it.  He is their God! 

* The Palm Branches, as well as depicting victory, also marked the Feast of Tabernacles, which can only be celebrated in the land, by all Israel (Lev.23:39-43) (Lev.23:10) (Neh.8:16,17) (Ezra 3:11,12; 2Chron.20:19) - it is to be celebrated here!

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you Dave.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #689 on: April 20, 2017, 05:27:55 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your post still unsure who the great multitude are the angel tells John

Rev 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

what is the great tribulation is it something that happens in the end times or is it something that's bean going on from the beginning I say this because Christ said

Joh 16:33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 Act 14:22  Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Rom 5:3  And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Rev 1:9  I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So it seams that believers have had tribulation from the beginning but if we are in Christ we have peace.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #690 on: April 20, 2017, 06:19:59 PM »
'For then shall be great tribulation,
such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time,
no, nor ever shall be.'

(Mat 24:21) 

'And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me,
"These are they which came out of great tribulation,
and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."'

(Rev.7:14)

Hi Dave, (@davetaff)

The Scriptures you quote tell us that in this world we will indeed know tribulation, for we are in the world but not of it. The world is an alien place to us who walk in the spirit, in Christ.  Yet this is not the great tribulation, is it? For it is specific, and will take place in the last 3 1/2 years of the seven years prophesied by Daniel.( I shall come back with the reference, God willing). It takes place just prior to the Lord's return.

Shall we stay in Revelation 7 a little longer, Dave, and see what else we can find out about the great multitude? For in responding to your post it was only verse 9, that I concentrated on.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


PS.
I didn't enter this thread until page 50, and you had reached Rev.10, by then; so I had no part in any discussion you had prior to that. Which includes the subject of the great multitude.


Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #691 on: April 21, 2017, 02:54:21 PM »
'For then shall be great tribulation,
such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time,
no, nor ever shall be.'

(Mat 24:21) 

'And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me,
"These are they which came out of great tribulation,
and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."'

(Rev.7:14)

 
Hi Dave, (@davetaff)

The Scriptures you quote tell us that in this world we will indeed know tribulation, for we are in the world but not of it. The world is an alien place to us who walk in the spirit, in Christ.  Yet this is not the great tribulation, is it? For it is specific, and will take place in the last 3 1/2 years of the seven years prophesied by Daniel.( I shall come back with the reference, God willing). It takes place just prior to the Lord's return.

Shall we stay in Revelation 7 a little longer, Dave, and see what else we can find out about the great multitude? For in responding to your post it was only verse 9, that I concentrated on.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


PS.
I didn't enter this thread until page 50, and you had reached Rev.10, by then; so I had no part in any discussion you had prior to that. Which includes the subject of the great multitude.


Hi Chris
Thanks for your reply I think there is a connection between the great multitude and the tribulation as the multitude came out of the tribulation the question now is is 3 1/2 years enough to produce a great multitude.

I think the verse you quoted above  Mat 24:21 is referring to the Romans sacking Jerusalem 1n 70ad not a reference to the end times.
Do you think this tribulation has gone on from that time until the present day and will continue to the end because our Lord said it would be a great tribulation that had not happened before nor would happen after.

3 1/2 is half of 7 which has me thinking of the 7 days of creation the first 3 1/2 was up until the jews were rejected the next 3 1/2 from then to the end of the millennium just a thought.

Love and Peace
Dave


 

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #692 on: April 22, 2017, 10:10:39 AM »
Quote from: davetaff link=topic=8172
.msg63840#msg63840 date=1492782861
Hi Chris
Thanks for your reply I think there is a connection between the great multitude and the tribulation as the multitude came out of the tribulation the question now is is 3 1/2 years enough to produce a great multitude.

I think the verse you quoted above  Mat 24:21 is referring to the Romans sacking Jerusalem 1n 70ad not a reference to the end times.
Do you think this tribulation has gone on from that time until the present day and will continue to the end because our Lord said it would be a great tribulation that had not happened before nor would happen after.

3 1/2 is half of 7 which has me thinking of the 7 days of creation the first 3 1/2 was up until the jews were rejected the next 3 1/2 from then to the end of the millennium just a thought.

Love and Peace
Dave
 

Hello there,

No, I do not believe as you do regarding the things you refer to.

I believe the tribulation is yet to come

I will continue on then, Dave, with Rev.19, if God allows.

Grace and peace.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #693 on: April 22, 2017, 04:18:28 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your reply of course you do not have to believe what I say I know I have some strange thoughts sometimes I like to post them to test them out  like my post above what prompted it was why does all the things prophesied in reverlations have to be future events when the first   thing we are told is.

Rev 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

the words shortly come to pass jump out at me is it 10 years or 2000 years of course on Gods time scale 2000 years is 2 days.
can we trace the prophecies of revelations through world history was one of the great kings that would rise up the British empire a world empire on which the sun never set that's some  empire.

None of the above is carved in stone it's jest some random thought going round in my head most probably just an old mans imagination  old:

But by all means lets move on to  Rev.19

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #694 on: April 22, 2017, 10:25:36 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your reply of course you do not have to believe what I say I know I have some strange thoughts sometimes I like to post them to test them out  like my post above what prompted it was why does all the things prophesied in reverlations have to be future events when the first   thing we are told is.

Rev 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

the words shortly come to pass jump out at me is it 10 years or 2000 years of course on Gods time scale 2000 years is 2 days.
can we trace the prophecies of revelations through world history was one of the great kings that would rise up the British empire a world empire on which the sun never set that's some  empire.

None of the above is carved in stone it's jest some random thought going round in my head most probably just an old mans imagination  old:

But by all means lets move on to  Rev.19

Love and Peace
Dave

' ... ... shortly come to pass ... ...'
(Revelation 1:1)

I understand Dave. :D

The revelation of Jesus Christ was the hope of God's believing  people during the time covered by the Acts, and even afterwards (see 1Cor. 1:7; 2 Thess. 1:7; 1 Peter 1:7, 13; 4:13). All that is written prior to Revelation 19:11, is preparatory for it, and leads to it: ie., The Apocalypse, (ie., His unveiling, or revelation).

Yes, the words of Rev.1:1, say that these things will come to pass with speed, yet over 2,000 years have now passed!  What are we to make of this?   It is simply because the words were written not from the standpoint of John's day, but, 'The Lord's Day's: the day in which the events of the visions John is to see, take place.  The time will then be shortened for the elect' s sake.  The final seven years of Daniel 9, will quickly run their course, and the Lord will rend the heavens and come down. 

The same thing applies to such words as that found in Rev. 2:16 and 3:11.  Revelation closes with the repeated nearness of the Lord's coming (Rev.22:7,12,20).

The failure of Israel to come to repentance and acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah, (Acts 3:12-21), has led to them being laid aside temporarily in unbelief, and everthing now has to run it's course, and the prophecies of this book therefore await fulfillment.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #695 on: April 23, 2017, 02:42:12 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your post and your patience I found your reference to the Lords day very interesting brought more strange thought to my mind (sorry)

Is the Lord's day the millennium 1000 years for a day in the physical world our lord rose on the third day and it was in the dark part of the day as I understand it the Jewish day started at sundown so we don't know at what time of the day our Lord arose.

In the spiritual world he will also arise on the third day 3000 years after his ascension which  of course is about now and again he will arise in the dark part of the day these words come to mind.

1Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

so will he arise but we won't see him straight away but he will take command behind the scenes moving all the earthly powers to fulfil the first part of revelations bearing in mind the following.

Psa 2:9  Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

 Rev 2:27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 Rev 19:15  And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I had always thought of the millennium as a peaceful place but now i think it will be anything but until towards the end maybe.

the more I think about it the more it seams right to me.

Love and Peace
Dave