Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18386 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #672 on: March 04, 2017, 02:24:08 PM »
Forgive me for not commenting on your conclusions, Dave.  I have taken note of them, and will respond later. God willing.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Hi
Chris
Not a problem take your time we have eternity  :)

I have bean having thoughts on the Beast and from the last couple of posts I keep getting this picture of great wealth all the kingdoms mentioned seam to portray this wealth and power or maybe wealth is power.
The statue in Daniel for instance the head of gold depicts great wealth but if we look at the foundations they aren't strong enough to take the weight.

So my thoughts are is the beast the great financial institutions of the world they have bean hidden in former times but now with all our modern means of communication and world wide news they are coming more to the fore the beast rising out of the sea of humanity.

What will the effect be on the world when these institutions collapse as I believe they will we have had a few tremors in the last hundred year's or so stock market crashes these will be nothing compared to the whole financial world collapsing what a great earthquake that will cause and what will be the the cause of this crash.

 Dan 2:34  Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
Dan 2:35  Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

I believe this stone is the stone the builders rejected it is Christ that will destroy the head of gold before bringing in his kingdom.

Love and Peace
Dave           

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #673 on: March 04, 2017, 06:39:49 PM »
Hi
Chris
Not a problem take your time we have eternity  :)

I have bean having thoughts on the Beast and from the last couple of posts I keep getting this picture of great wealth all the kingdoms mentioned seam to portray this wealth and power or maybe wealth is power.
The statue in Daniel for instance the head of gold depicts great wealth but if we look at the foundations they aren't strong enough to take the weight.

So my thoughts are is the beast the great financial institutions of the world they have bean hidden in former times but now with all our modern means of communication and world wide news they are coming more to the fore the beast rising out of the sea of humanity.

What will the effect be on the world when these institutions collapse as I believe they will we have had a few tremors in the last hundred year's or so stock market crashes these will be nothing compared to the whole financial world collapsing what a great earthquake that will cause and what will be the the cause of this crash.

 Dan 2:34  Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
Dan 2:35  Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

I believe this stone is the stone the builders rejected it is Christ that will destroy the head of gold before bringing in his kingdom.

Love and Peace
Dave         
Hi Dave (@davetaff)

I understand your reasoning here, and you could well be right, but I am not ready to commit myself to anything fully yet.

* It certainly would seem that we have the world powers named in Daniel, and their dominion in the earth, gathered up and concentrated in this one sign.  We saw the nations concerned in their mortal form in the image in Daniel, and it will be all of them revived as a whole which will have, 'one mind', or one purpose, and that will be to 'make war with the Lamb.'

'These have one mind, and shall 'give their power and strength unto the beast.'

'These shall make war with the Lamb,
.. and the Lamb shall overcome them:
for He is Lord of lords,
.. and King of kings:
.... and they that are with Him
...... are called,
........ and chosen,
.......... and faithful.'

(Rev 17:13,14) 

* This will affect, 'all that dwell upon the earth'  (Rev.13:8; 11:10; 14:6), and reach to 'wheresoever the children of men dwell' (Dan. 2:38).

'And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,
whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb

slain from the foundation of the world.'[/b]

(Rev 13:8 )

'And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, (the death of the two witnesses)
and make merry,
and shall send gifts one to another;
because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.'[/color]
(Rev 11:10) 
 
'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, ... '

(Rev 14:6) 

* When the time for these final judgments to arrive the great, 'stone', falls and hits the image upon the feet, (Dan. 2:34,45); but then as we can see in Dan.2:35, 'Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, and the gold broken to pieces together.'. All of these powers will be brought to nothing, 'together'.

* Although it is these specific 'kings' (or nations) that we have associated with the Beast, it takes in the whole earth, all earthly power, and worldly dominion finally.  Then there will be none but our Lord's sovereignty, and 'it will fill the whole earth'.(Dan 2:35)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #674 on: March 04, 2017, 07:26:06 PM »
'And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard,
and his feet were as the feet of a bear,
and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:
and the dragon gave him his power,
and his seat, and great authority.
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death;
and his deadly wound was healed:
and all the world wondered after the beast.'

(Rev 13:2,3) 

Hi there,

The reference, in this description (above) to a 'Leopard', 'bear' and 'lion', bring to mind, again, the image of Daniel, doesn't it, and the powers of Greece, Rome and Turkey.

- Belly and thighs of brass  -  Greece (Dan. 8:2)                -  Lion with wings (Dan. 7)
- Legs of iron                      -  Rome (Luke 2)                     -  bear, with three ribs in it's mouth (Dan. 7:5)
- Feet of iron and clay        -  Turkey (A.D. 636 to 1917)   -  Leopard with wings (Dan. 7)
- Toes of clay                     -   Monster with ten horns. (Dan.7, Rev. 13 & 17)

*  Whether the Beast will embody the characteristics of these three powers I cannot tell, but words are not used without purpose in Scripture.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #675 on: March 05, 2017, 02:06:11 PM »
'And he saith unto me,
The waters which thou sawest,
where the whore sitteth,
are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast,
these shall hate the whore,
and shall make her desolate and naked,
and shall eat her flesh,
and burn her with fire.
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree,
and give their kingdom unto the beast,
until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city,
which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'

Rev 17:15-18) 

Hello Dave,

I feel a little lost at the moment, having been concentrating on chapter 13, and the description of the Beast there, and on Daniel's prophecy. Coming now to chapter 17 again, I have come to the verses above, for they begin to show us the great whore, which is the second subject of the interpretation that the Angel gave to John.

* However, the words highlighted in the verses above make me think of the verses you supplied earlier from Hosea, Dave, (Hosea 13:7,8).  For, although we see Satan at work by means of the Beast and the powers at his disposal, he can do nothing unless God wills,  God is over all, and He, 'shall send them strong delusion' (2 Thess. 2:11), they will carry out their own desires, but blindly fulfill the counsel of God.  These, 'ten kings' use their power, but there is a limit to it all, it is expressed in the words, 'until the words of God shall be fulfilled.'

* For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree,
and give their kingdom unto the beast,
until the words of God shall be fulfilled.


In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #676 on: March 06, 2017, 04:26:43 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your posts very interesting not surprising your feeling a little lost so am I it is a vast subject it's world wide it encompasses everything not an easy task but very rewarding don't you think.

Like I said before I think the great harlot is the church of man we don't have to go back to far in history to a time when the church wielded great power over the nations.
But now it's a different story the church is being sidelined church building are closing  is this a fulfilment of what you quoted  Rev 17:15-18)

Of course the real church the body of Christ cannot be affected by Man.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #677 on: March 06, 2017, 05:46:27 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your posts very interesting not surprising your feeling a little lost so am I it is a vast subject it's world wide it encompasses everything not an easy task but very rewarding don't you think.

Like I said before I think the great harlot is the church of man we don't have to go back to far in history to a time when the church wielded great power over the nations.
But now it's a different story the church is being sidelined church building are closing  is this a fulfilment of what you quoted  Rev 17:15-18)

Of course the real church the body of Christ cannot be affected by Man.

Love and Peace
Dave

No, Praise God! the Church which is the Body of Christ is not affected by man, as you say.  There can be no excommunication, or withdrawal of the hand of fellowship from that company, whose Headship is Christ Himself.  We are known of Him and precious.

I cannot comment further at the moment, Dave, but I thank you for your responses.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad



Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #679 on: March 11, 2017, 04:50:01 PM »
Hello again,

The whole of chapter 17 and 18, apart from the few verses that dealt with the Beast, deals with the judgment of God upon Babylon, 'the great whore'.  I do not believe, personally, that this signifies anything other than what it claims to be, 'Babylon', that system of government which commenced 'the times of the Gentiles', and from which all religious cults find their origin. 

* The return of Israel and Judah marks the overthrow of Babylon,

'In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD,
the children of Israel shall come,
they and the children of Judah together
, going and weeping:
they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.
They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying,
Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD
in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.'

(Jer 50:4,5)

Prophecy
'O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures,
thine end is come, and the measure of thy covetousness.'

(Jer 51:13) 

Fulfilment
'And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials,
and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither;
I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore
that sitteth upon many waters
:'

(Rev 17:1) 

Prophecy:
'Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand,
that made all the earth drunken:
the nations have drunken of her wine;
therefore the nations are mad.'

(Jer 51:7)

Fulfillment:
'And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour,
and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,
having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:'

(Rev 17:4) 

'With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication,
and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.'

(Rev 17:2)
 
* Compare also:-
Isa. 47:5,7  -  Rev. 17:18 and 18:7,8
Jer. 51:25  -  Rev.18:8
Jer. 51:6,45; 50:8  -  Rev.18:4
Jer.51:9  -  Rev. 18:5
Jer.50:15; 51:24-49  -  18:6

* There are many more of these comparisons.
* Gentile dominion and Satanic counterfeit will both be headed up again in Babylon, and there they will be judged.

https://youtu.be/zbR6oB17UDw

* Zech.5:1-11 - prophecy concerning the re-building of Babylon.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad
 
https://youtu.be/zbR6oB17UDw