Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18387 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1423
  • Total likes: 104
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #664 on: March 02, 2017, 02:49:48 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your posts like you say very complex and hard to understand I thought the first verse of revelations may be of help.

Rev 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The words ( which must shortly come to pass ) stands out I think one tends to view revelations as a future event when in fact maybe many of the prophesies may have already taken place if they were shortly to take place in Johns time.

What dose the word shortly  mean to God if we work on a day for a 1000 years its just a couple of days so hows you history mines not to good and my memories even worse.

So lets consider the beast.

 Rev 13:1  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2  And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4  And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5  And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

the beast rises out of the sea of humanity he is not satan but satan gives him his power satan is the dragon the beast is described as parts of three different animals have you any idea's on this may be an amalgamation of super power's.

Then we have one of his heads was wounded made me think of

Gen 3:15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Love and Peace
Dave     

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1423
  • Total likes: 104
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #665 on: March 02, 2017, 05:27:24 PM »
Hi Chris
I have jest started reading this on line and thought it mite be of interest to our discussion let me know what you think.

http://jaymack.net/revelation-commentary/Ac-The-Book-of-Revelation-From-a-Jewish-Perspective.asp

Love and Peace
Dave
http://jaymack.net/revelation-commentary/Ac-The-Book-of-Revelation-From-a-Jewish-Perspective.asp

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #666 on: March 03, 2017, 04:53:35 AM »
Hello Dave, @davetaff,

Thank you for responding, I will look at the links.

Regarding the words, 'shortly come to pass', in Revelation chapter one, I believe they must be understood in the light of the fact that John had been taken, 'in spirit', to a future day; to, 'the Lord's Day', or, 'the day of the Lord', so that all that he saw and heard, in vision, related to that day, and that time, and not to any time preceding it.

* I am in the process of reading through the opening sections introducing the subject of Revelation in the link you provided.  I find myself in agreement with what is said there concerning interpretation so far, and have bookmarked the link to go back and read more. 

* I will consider the Scriptures you have quoted (Rev.13:1-5), in my next post, God willing.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #667 on: March 03, 2017, 11:17:04 AM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your posts like you say very complex and hard to understand I thought the first verse of revelations may be of help.

Rev 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The words ( which must shortly come to pass ) stands out I think one tends to view revelations as a future event when in fact maybe many of the prophesies may have already taken place if they were shortly to take place in Johns time.

What dose the word shortly  mean to God if we work on a day for a 1000 years its just a couple of days so hows you history mines not to good and my memories even worse.

So lets consider the beast.

 Rev 13:1  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2  And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4  And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5  And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

the beast rises out of the sea of humanity he is not satan but satan gives him his power satan is the dragon the beast is described as parts of three different animals have you any idea's on this may be an amalgamation of super power's.

Then we have one of his heads was wounded made me think of

Gen 3:15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Love and Peace
Dave     

'And the angel said unto me,
Wherefore didst thou marvel?
I will tell thee the mystery of the woman,
and of the beast that carrieth her,
which hath the seven heads and ten horns
.'

(Rev 17:7) 

Hi Dave (@davetaff)

Consideration of the Beast in chapter 17:8-14, necessitate us going back, as you have done, to Chapter 13:1-(Rev 13:1-8) 

And I stood upon the sand of the sea,
.. and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads
.... and ten horns,
...... and upon his horns ten crowns,
........ and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.'

(Rev.13:1)

* Here we have the same description as that of Rev.17:8, but here the 'ten horns' are crowned:

* We are told in Rev.17:9, that,  'The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. ', and in 13:1, that each head (or mountain) has the name, 'blaspheme' written upon it.

* The ten horns: 17:12-14a, tells us:-
 
'are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet;
but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
These have one mind,
.. and shall give their power
.... and strength unto the beast.
These shall make war with the Lamb,
.. and the Lamb shall overcome them:
for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings:
.. and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.'


Praise God!

* Concerning the seven kings, 17:10 tells us,

'And there are seven kings: five are fallen,
.. and one is,
.... and the other is not yet come;
...... and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was,
.. and is not, even he is the eighth,
.... and is of the seven,
...... and goeth into perdition.'


* So the beast himself is going to be the eighth king, having been 'the seventh' prior to being 'wounded to death' (13:3). He becomes the eighth when he is raised up from death.

* At the moment this is as clear as mud, I know, but hopefully more light will come as we proceed.

'And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard,
.. and his feet were as the feet of a bear,
.... and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:
...... and the dragon gave him his power,
........ and his seat,
.......... and great authority.'

(Rev.13:2)

* We need to also look at (Dan 7:2-8):- 

'Daniel spake and said,
I saw in my vision by night,
and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
.. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
The first was like a lion,
.. and had eagle's wings:
I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked,
.. and it was lifted up from the earth,
.... and made stand upon the feet as a man,
...... and a man's heart was given to it.
And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear,
.. and it raised up itself on one side,
.... and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it:
...... and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard,
which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl;
the beast had also four heads;
.. and dominion was given to it.
After this I saw in the night visions,
.. and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly;
....  and it had great iron teeth:
it devoured and brake in pieces,
.. and stamped the residue with the feet of it:
.... and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;
...... and it had ten horns.
I considered the horns,
.. and, behold, there came up among them another little horn,
...... before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots:
.... and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man,
...... and a mouth speaking great things.

(Dan 7:2-8)

* Compare Rev. 13:3-

'And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death;
.. and his deadly wound was healed:
.... and all the world wondered after the beast.
...... And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:
........ and they worshipped the beast, saying,
............ Who is like unto the beast?
............ who is able to make war with him?
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;
.. and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
.... And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God,
........... to blaspheme His Name,
............and His Tabernacle,
............... and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints,
.. and to overcome them:
.... and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,
....... whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.'

(Rev.3-8)

* It would seem that, 'the little horn', of Daniel 7, is the Beast of Revelation 13 and 17.
* The Beast of Revelation 13 and 17, will be a combination of all the beasts of Daniel and more.  Daniel 7 covers the whole period of Gentile dominion.

I am sorry this is so long.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #668 on: March 03, 2017, 11:24:23 AM »
Hi there,

If my highlighting and indenting is annoying, unhelpful, or unnecessary, please tell me.

Thank you.
Cariad

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1423
  • Total likes: 104
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #669 on: March 03, 2017, 02:22:02 PM »
Hi there,

If my highlighting and indenting is annoying, unhelpful, or unnecessary, please tell me.

Thank you.
Cariad

Hi Chris
I don't mind at all and I don't mind long posts so long as they are interesting as yours are getting back to the beast.

In Daniel there are 4 separate beasts the consensus of opinion being these are 4 kingdom's  which are.

the Babylonian Empire
the Medo-Persian Empire
the Greek Empire of Alexander
the Roman Empire,

The beast in revelations seams to be a combination of all of them which makes me think they are an amalgamation of super powers trying to get world dominance.

I also came across this not sure how it may help us maybe not at all.

Hos 13:7  Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
Hos 13:8  I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

Here God is speaking to Israel and it seams he will appear as the beast to them.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #670 on: March 03, 2017, 04:54:45 PM »
Hi Chris
I don't mind at all and I don't mind long posts so long as they are interesting as yours are getting back to the beast.

In Daniel there are 4 separate beasts the consensus of opinion being these are 4 kingdom's  which are.

the Babylonian Empire
the Medo-Persian Empire
the Greek Empire of Alexander
the Roman Empire,

The beast in revelations seams to be a combination of all of them which makes me think they are an amalgamation of super powers trying to get world dominance.

I also came across this not sure how it may help us maybe not at all.

Hos 13:7  Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
Hos 13:8  I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

Here God is speaking to Israel and it seams he will appear as the beast to them.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hi Dave,

Thank you for the reference from Hosea (13:7,8) - interesting. Thank you too for bringing us to Daniel.

The' times of the Gentiles', were characterized by one essential feature, indicated by the Lord in Luke 21:24,

'And they shall fall by the edge of the sword,
and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles,
until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.'

(Luke  21:24)

* They all dominate Jerusalem, from Babylon to Rome, (the first advent of our Lord)
*  The Mohammedan power succeeded Rome in that line of dominion, and the League of nations followed didn't it?

* The Image of Daniel

- The head of gold- Babylon (Dan 2)
- Breast of silver - Medo-Peria (Dan. 5:31)
- Belly and thighs of brass - Greece (Dan. 8:21)
- Legs of iron - Rome (luke 2)
- Feet of iron and clay - Turkey (A.D. 636 to 1917)

*These are the five (above) that have fallen (Rev. 17:10)

'And there are seven kings: five are fallen,
and one is, and the other is not yet come;
and when he cometh,
he must continue a short space.'

---------------
- Then comes the present day.
- We stand at the junction of the feet and the ten toes, which are ten kings.
---------------
- Toes of clay - The 10 Kings = ('.. One is ... ') - Rev.17:10
- The Stone cut out without hands - The Kingdom of the Lord.

* When John wrote by revelation, 'in spirit',  from, 'The Day of the Lord', he could say, 'Five are fallen', and, 'one is' (the dominion of the 10 Kings).
* The Antichrist will present himself as the seventh, he is, 'of the seven'(17:11), and referred to as, 'The other is not yet come'; but the Kingdom of Christ is the seventh.

* Israel is now in the land, isn't it, but in unbelief, though the whole land (promised) is not theirs yet.

Thought provoking.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #671 on: March 03, 2017, 07:17:46 PM »
Forgive me for not commenting on your conclusions, Dave.  I have taken note of them, and will respond later. God willing.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad