Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18388 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #656 on: February 26, 2017, 04:35:10 PM »
'And he gathered them together
into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.'

(Rev 16:16) 

* Just a few words in regard to this verse which ends the pouring out of the sixth vial.

*The name 'Armageddon' means, 'the mount of Megiddo' and has been the location for several slaughters.
eg., Judges 5:19;  2 Kings 23:29 / 2 Chron. 35:22-25; Zechariah 12:11.

* This is a location which is real, being part of a great plain called Esdraelon. and the events that are prophesied to take place there will be just as real.

* The sixth vial ends here with the gathering together of the hosts of the enemies of God and His People, and we will have to wait until the seventh vial's outpouring is described before we see the battle itself described in Rev. 19:11-18.

Thank you for your patience
In Christ Jesus
Cariad



 

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #657 on: February 26, 2017, 05:35:25 PM »
'And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air;
and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven,
...... from the throne, saying, "It is done."

And there were voices,
and thunders,
and lightnings;
and there was a great earthquake,
...... such as was not since men were upon the earth,
...... so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
And the great city was divided into three parts,
and the cities of the nations fell:
 
and great Babylon came in remembrance before God,
...... to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
And every island fled away,
and the mountains were not found.
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven,
...... every stone about the weight of a talent:
and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail;
...... for the plague thereof was exceeding great. '

(Rev 16:17-21) 

* The last Vial has finally been poured out, and the last judgment and last plague begun.

* This will fulfill all of the Old Testament prophecies of God concerning these judgments.
So it is that this voice sounds forth the great announcement - 'IT IS DONE!'

* This is the last time that the temple in Heaven is mentioned, for in the New Heaven and the New Earth there will be no Temple (Rev.21:22).  This is the final act of judgment before the opening of heaven and the coming of the Son of God Himself to the battle in Rev.19:11.  However, before this we have to read of the destruction of Babylon and the reign of the Beast (ch. 17 and 18).

* The lightnings, and voices and thunders are similar to what took place at the opening of the Seventh Seal in Rev. 8:5; and at the sounding of the Seventh Trumpet (11:19).

* This is the great earthquake prophesied by God, through the Prophets in (Ezek. 38:20; Isa. 2:19,21; Hag. 2:21,22).

* Babylon is split into three parts by this earthquake, and the capital cities of all the nations which allied themselves with the Beast (16:14; 17:13-17) are destroyed.

* Babel was the location of the first apostasy from God after the Flood.  Always the enemy of God's People, Babel (Babylon) became the great Gentile empire, as visualized in the dream of Nebuchadnezzar. God promised to remember His covenant with Israel; and when He did so He promised also to remember Babylon in the day of His wrath.  So His People cry concerning it, 'Remember, O Lord.' (Psa 137; 98:3; 105:8,42).

* Babylon is only partly destroyed now, it's total destruction is to follow in chapters 17 & 18. 

* The judgments increase in severity, islands flee away, and certain mountains cannot be found, great hail falls, and men blaspheme God.
Hail has been used before as one of God's weapons of warfare, hasn't it? (Exodus 9:22-26) They are signs of God's wrath (Isa. 30:30; Ezek.13:11).

This is the end of the judgments of the 7 Vials recorded in chapter 16.

Thank you so much for waiting for me to catch up.
I would have missed so much.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad




 

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #658 on: February 26, 2017, 05:37:46 PM »
Hi
Moving on a little more starting to be very interesting.

Rev 17:1  And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2  With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5  And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

What a scary picture is painted for us here who is this woman that rides the beast I believe it's the great financial institutions that rule the world behind the scenes it's not politicians and Kings or dictators its the one who holds the purse strings there only purpose is to accumulate more wealth they never have enough.

The words of St Paul are very appropriate I think.

1Ti_6:10  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Love and Peace
Dave     

'And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials,
and talked with me, saying unto me, "Come hither;
I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication,
and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication."

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness:
and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,
full of names of blasphemy,
having seven heads and ten horns.
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour,
and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,
having a golden cup in her hand
full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
And upon her forehead was a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints,
and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:
and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.'

(Rev. 17:1-6)

* Now we are here, in Chapter 17, Dave (@davetaff).  Where you had reached prior to my return.
 
* Here we will learn of the causes, the manner, and consequences of the judgments of God upon Babylon (the great Harlot).
* Verses 1-6 is the vision itself, and verses 7-18 is the interpretation of it.

Praise God!

Thank you for your consideration in allowing me to come to this point. :)

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #659 on: February 28, 2017, 04:05:55 PM »
Hi Chris
Great to see you've caught up Hope you don't mind if I back peddle a little.
I was thinking when I read your post about the great whore i thought of the 144.000 virgins and was wondering if they had not been part of her but Kept them selves virgins.

Now the question is who or what is the great whore

Love and Peace
Dave
 

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #660 on: March 01, 2017, 11:50:24 AM »
Hi Chris
Great to see you've caught up Hope you don't mind if I back peddle a little.
I was thinking when I read your post about the great whore i thought of the 144.000 virgins and was wondering if they had not been part of her but Kept them selves virgins.

Now the question is who or what is the great whore

Love and Peace
Dave

Hello Dave, (@davetaff)

The Angel in Revelation 17, goes on to say in verse 7a,

'And the angel said unto me,
Wherefore didst thou marvel?
I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, ... '


* Here we have a promise, that the mystery of the woman will be told to us, don't we?  It is not open to conjecture, but simply to be believed and understood.

* In verses 8-19 we have that promise performed, both, 'the mystery of the woman',  'and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns', will be made known.

* Where God gives His interpretation, it is not for us to cloud His truth by introducing ideas of our own.

------------------

The promise of the angel, 'I will tell thee', is being performed in reverse order.  The beast is being dealt with first, and the mystery of the woman follows in verse 18,

'And the woman which thou sawest is that great city,
which reigneth over the kings of the earth.'


* The woman is clearly spoken of as a city.  A city which reigns over the kings of the earth.

* This can be looked at and considered in it's place, but I believe we aught to continue in the order presented to us in chapter 17: starting with the Beast in verses 8,9.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #661 on: March 01, 2017, 05:27:04 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your post we can certainly look at the beast first

Rev 17:7  And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:8  The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9  And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Rev 9:11  And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Do you think the angel and the beast are one and the same and can it be that this vision is at the end of the millennial reign of Christ when satan is released for a short time then the words ( the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. ) would make more sense.

I have read somewhere that   seven mountains are Rome I like to think of it as symbolic of the organised churches of man and not the church the body of Christ why else would John marvel at the sight.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #662 on: March 01, 2017, 10:50:11 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your post we can certainly look at the beast first

Rev 17:7  And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:8  The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9  And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Rev 9:11  And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Do you think the angel and the beast are one and the same and can it be that this vision is at the end of the millennial reign of Christ when satan is released for a short time then the words ( the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. ) would make more sense.

I have read somewhere that   seven mountains are Rome I like to think of it as symbolic of the organised churches of man and not the church the body of Christ why else would John marvel at the sight.

Love and Peace
Dave

Thank you Dave, (@davetaff)

I don't know about you, but at first glance I find Rev.17: 8-19 daunting, for this interpretation promised by the Angel appears so complex, that I feel the need for it also to be 'interpreted.'.   :)

Yet, everything given in explanation by the Angel has to be 'given' truth, identifiable by the One receiving it, (John).  So we must also seek to trace out the truth that this interpretation refers to, (incl. Rev.13 and Dan.2 & 7), and by God's grace come to an understanding, beginning with the opening words of the Angel in Rev.17:7b,

' ... the beast that carrieth her,
which hath seven heads and ten horns'


[It is 10:45pm, and I am using my Kindle. I need to come back to this tomorrow (God willing) on the computer so that I can use more than one finger, and have access to the online concordance]

Thank you for your patience.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #663 on: March 02, 2017, 11:11:05 AM »
Thank you Dave, (@davetaff)

I don't know about you, but at first glance I find Rev.17: 8-19 daunting, for this interpretation promised by the Angel appears so complex, that I feel the need for it also to be 'interpreted.'.   :)

Yet, everything given in explanation by the Angel has to be 'given' truth, identifiable by the One receiving it, (John).  So we must also seek to trace out the truth that this interpretation refers to, (incl. Rev.13 and Dan.2 & 7), and by God's grace come to an understanding, beginning with the opening words of the Angel in Rev.17:7b,

' ... the beast that carrieth her,
which hath seven heads and ten horns'

Rev.17:7b,

Hello again,

Looking back at previous posts, to Replies #522, #523, #524 (on P66), #533 (on P67) #550, #551 (on P69) in which we looked at the Beast rising out of the sea in chapter 13, they are worth looking at again in regard to these verses in chapter 17 (8-19).  I will just quote 13:1, again here,

?And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
having seven heads and ten horns,
and upon his horns ten crowns,
and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

(Rev. 13:1)

(Daniel 2:31-35 & 37-45; 7:23-26)

-----------------------------

Let's get an overview of Rev.17:8-17 a moment,

8. - The Beast - (His origin and history)
9,10. - His allies - (the seven heads or kings)
11. - The Beast - (more history)
12. - His allies - (the 10 horns and their, 'hour', 'with the beast')
13. - The Beast - (the power of the horns given to him)
14-17. - His allies - (their war 'with the Lamb')

* So, the subjects of these verses are the Beast and his contemporaries.
* Let's look at verses 8-10,

'The beast that thou sawest -
was, and is not;
.. and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,
... and go into perdition:
...... and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder,
................. whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,
................. when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
And here is the mind which hath wisdom.
The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
And there are seven kings:
five are fallen,
.. and one is,
.... and the other is not yet come;
...... and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.'


* The Beast is about to ascend out of the Abyss, and to go to perdition, the people who dwell on the earth at that time shall 'wonder', (these are those whose names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world) when they observe the Beast, why? Because, 'he was', and, 'is', and, 'is not', 'yet is' - present.

* In chapter 13:1, the Beast is seen coming up out of the Abyss, and is clearly not 'mortal'.
* During the first 3 1/2 years of the 7 year period covered here, the Beast is clearly 'mortal', but in the following 3 1/2 years he is not mortal, but 'other' (superhuman), for in Rev. 13:3 he is 'wounded to death'. Here is chapter 17, we are taken back and given further information as to the past, present and future of the Beast.

* This takes some time to get to grips with, doesn't it? For it is so foreign to our finite minds.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad