Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18372 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #648 on: February 25, 2017, 09:44:41 AM »
@davetaff
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Hello there,

It is so easy to get so caught up with the detail of this book, that we loose sight of the purpose of God behind it. Have you ever looked at optical illusion puzzles, which have images hidden within them?  Well I sometimes feel that I am dealing with one of those puzzles when reading through this book: that there is something I am just not grasping beneath the surface of the detail on it's pages.  Even now as each detail emerges I am gaining understanding of each part, but failing yet to completely join up the dots (as it were).

The obvious link there is between the events of the Exodus and the judgments of Revelation, we have all now commented on. Praise God! For His gracious dealings with us, His boundless patience and great love towards us, for He knows the limitations of our flesh. Praise God! also for His Holy Spirit and His tireless and gracious perseverance as we slowly, so very slowly, see the fulfillment of His purpose emerging.

Please bear with me as I continue to look at chapter 16, in order to arrive at the point where you both reached in my absence.  I will look at each point as briefly as possible, and then if God will, we can discuss the full scope of the link with Exodus, and the reasons for it.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

 

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #649 on: February 25, 2017, 10:07:18 AM »
'And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea;
and it became as the blood of a dead man:
and every living soul died in the sea.'

( Rev 16:3 ) 

* We need to compare this with, Rev. 8:8, (the blowing of the 2nd trumpet)

'And the second angel sounded,
and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea:
and the third part of the sea became blood;'

( Rev 8:8 )

* Also with the first Egyptian plague, (Exodus 7:20-25)

'And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded;
and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river,
in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants;
and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.
(And the fish that was in the river died; and the river stank,
and the Egyptians could not drink of the water of the river;
and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.
And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments:
and Pharaoh's heart was hardened,
neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said.
And Pharaoh turned and went into his house,
neither did he set his heart to this also.
And all the Egyptians digged round about the river for water to drink;
for they could not drink of the water of the river.
And seven days were fulfilled, after that the LORD had smitten the river.'


'He turned their waters into blood, and slew their fish.'
(Psa 105:29) 

* This comparison shows the literal nature of these judgments, doesn't it?

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #650 on: February 25, 2017, 10:35:08 AM »
'And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters;
and they became blood.
And I heard the angel of the waters say,
"Thou art righteous, O Lord,
which art, and wast, and shalt be,
because Thou hast judged thus.
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
and Thou hast given them blood to drink;

for they are worthy.
And I heard another out of the altar say,
Even so, Lord God Almighty,
true and righteous are Thy judgments."'

(Rev 16:4) 

* Here we have Divine comment from heaven regarding the judgment of the pouring out of this third Vial.

* The word, 'angel of the waters', reveal that angels have delegated spheres of operation.  It also reveals that what our finite minds express as 'laws of nature' are something far higher, that He who made those 'laws' has a mighty and capable company of angels who superintend and control their operation.  Their purpose is to see that those laws and God's will is done, to the glory of His Name.

* These voices proceed from the alter in the temple which is in heaven. These angels are speaking in the dispensation which follows the one we are in today, a dispensation of judgement and not of grace.  Today God is not imputing our trespasses unto us, having imputed them all to Christ.

* The words, 'They have shed the blood of thy prophets, ... ', refers to such passages as Rev. 17:6 and 18:20.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #651 on: February 25, 2017, 10:52:53 AM »
'And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun;
and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
And men were scorched with great heat,
and blasphemed the name of God,
which hath power over these plagues:
and they repented not to give Him glory.'

( Rev 16:8 ) 

* Again we have to compare the Rev.8:12, with this, when the fourth angel sounded forth the notes of a trumpet,   

'And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten,
and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars;
so as the third part of them was darkened,
and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. '


* Luke 21:25 tells us that there 'will be signs in the sun',  and in Isa. 24:6/42:25:-

' Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth,
and they that dwell therein are desolate:
therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.'

(Isa 24:6)

'Therefore He hath poured upon him the fury of His anger,
and the strength of battle:
and it hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not;
and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart.'

(Isa 42:25) 

* Malachi 4:1 says:-

' For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven;
and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble:
and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts,
that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.'


* Yet what comes through in all this is the lack of repentance, and a stubborn refusal to, 'give glory to God'.. Doesn't this also remind you of Pharoah?  Yet this is one of the plagues which is not part of the Egyptian experience.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #652 on: February 25, 2017, 04:49:11 PM »
Hello again,

I hope you will not get fed-up with so many postings.

* We have now come to the fifth Vial (Rev.16:10:11)

'And the fifth angel poured out his vial
upon the seat of the beast;
and his kingdom was full of darkness;
and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
And blasphemed the God of heaven
because of their pains and their sores,
and repented not of their deeds.'

(Rev 16:10-11)

*  The pouring out of this Vial is directed towards 'the seat of the Beast', who rules as Satan's representative. In Rev. 13:1,2 we read the following description of the Beast, and his power and authority is ascribed to Satan:-

'And I stood upon the sand of the sea,
and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
having seven heads and ten horns,
and upon his horns ten crowns,
and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard,
and his feet were as the feet of a bear,
and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:
and the dragon gave him his power,
and his seat, and great authority.'


* This, 'plague of darkness' is like that of Egypt (Exodus 10:21-23).

'And the LORD said unto Moses,
"Stretch out thine hand toward heaven,
that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt
,
even darkness which may be felt.
And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven;
and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
They saw not one another,
neither rose any from his place for three days:
but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.'

(Exo 10:21-23)

* Joel prophesies of this in 2:1,2,31,

'Blow ye the trumpet in Zion,
and sound an alarm in my holy mountain:
let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:
for the day of the LORD cometh,
for it is nigh at hand;
A day of darkness and of gloominess,
a day of clouds and of thick darkness,

as the morning spread upon the mountains:
a great people and a strong;
there hath not been ever the like,
neither shall be any more after it,
even to the years of many generations.'

(Joe 2:1,2)
     
'The sun shall be turned into darkness,
and the moon into blood,
before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come
.
And it shall come to pass,
that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:
for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance,
as the LORD hath said,
and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.'

(Joe 2:31,32)

* Our Lord speaks of it, in Mark13:24,25,

But in those days, after that tribulation,
the sun shall be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light
,
And the stars of heaven shall fall,
and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.'

 
* Those who have given their allegiance to the Beast, and bear his mark will have no rest day or night because of the sores that have broken out upon them, and suffer from the burns inflicted by the sun's scorching rays.  Now they are in thick darkness, yet still they do not repent or turn from their works.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


   

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #653 on: February 26, 2017, 02:10:16 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your last posts I can see a lot of work and thought  has gone into it you are nearly where you want to be I hope you are not stressing to much you are nearly where you want to be so I will not interrupt you with my thoughts at the present time  but wait for you to catch up.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #654 on: February 26, 2017, 03:32:51 PM »
Thank you Dave (@davetaff)

-------------------------

'And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates;
and the water thereof was dried up,
that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

(Rev 16:12)

Hello yet again,

The river Euphrates is the longest  river of western Asia, it and the Tigris, are the defining rivers of Mesopotamia.  It originates in eastern Turkey, flows through Syria and Iraq and joins the Tigris before emptying into the Persian Gulf.  Although it has three tributaries, it's main source of water is from rainfall and melting snow.  Here in Rev. 16:12 we read that it's waters will be dried up as a result of the outpouring by the angel of the sixth vial.  This will be done in order for the Kings (rulers) of the east to pass through on dry land, to come to  the battle of Armageddon. (v. 16)

'And he gathered them together
into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.'

(Rev 16:16) 

* The sixth Trumpet sounding in Revelation 9:14-21, also concerns the river Euphrates.  At the sounding of the trumpet a vast supernatural army is loosed to slay a third part of men.  Here in Rev. 16:12-16, with the outpouring of the sixth vial, the vast human army is gathered together, the whole of which will be destroyed by God.

* Isaiah 11:15 prophesies concerning the river Euphrates, in relation to the remnant of Israel who will cross over 'dryshod'.

'And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea;
and with His mighty wind shall He shake His hand over the river, (Euphrates)
and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
And there shall be an highway for the remnant of His people,
which shall be left, from Assyria;
like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.'

(Isaiah 11:15,16) 

* Zechariah 10:10,11 also prophesies concerning the river Euphrates,

'I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt,
and gather them out of Assyria;
and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon;
and place shall not be found for them.
And he shall pass through the sea with affliction,
and shall smite the waves in the sea,
and all the deeps of the river shall dry up:
and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down,
and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away.'

(Zec 10:10,11) 

* So, surely the drying up of the river Euphrates must be taken literally.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #655 on: February 26, 2017, 04:10:20 PM »
' And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs
come out of the mouth of the dragon,
and out of the mouth of the beast,
and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles,
which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,
to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.'

(Rev 16:13,14)

* This is the gathering of the rulers of the nations to battle against the Lamb and his host.  Heavenly, Satanic and Earthly forces will be engaged in this battle. Revelation 9:14-21 gives a glimpse of the supernatural forces, and 16:12-16 introduces the earthly forces involved in this fight from which they will never return.

* Verse 15, is a curious little verse isn?t it? coming as it does, as a parenthesis, not part of the text surrounding it.

?Behold, I come as a thief.
Blessed is he that watcheth,
and keepeth his garments,
lest he walk naked,
and they see his shame.?

(Rev 16:15)

* These words are addressed to those who have not worshipped the Beast or his image, and have not received his mark or the number of his name.  This is a 'blessing', and an encouragement to them. 

* Notice the words, 'as a thief'.  He is to come as a thief in this context, this proves that the Church is not part of the judgement scene described here, for the Thessalonian believers were assured that, that day shall NOT come on them as a thief (1 Thess. 5:6).  Compare also Matthew 24:38-40 and Luke 12:35-40.

* So verse 15 is not for us in this dispensation of grace, even as the assurance of 1 Thessalonians is not for us.  Those who need it will be on the earth at that time, as we see in Rev. 3:3.

'Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard,
and hold fast, and repent.
If therefore thou shalt not watch,
I will come on thee as a thief,
and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.'

(Rev 3:3)

* Compare also, Mark 13:34-37)

'Take ye heed, watch and pray:
for ye know not when the time is.
For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey,
who left his house,
and gave authority to his servants,
and to every man his work,
and commanded the porter to watch.
Watch ye therefore:
for ye know not when the master of the house cometh,
at even, or at midnight,
or at the cockcrowing,
or in the morning:
Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.'


In Christ Jesus
Cariad