Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18440 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #640 on: February 23, 2017, 09:12:39 PM »
Hi Chris
wonderful posts so much information and scripture I think getting the word of God out on the net can only be a good thing don't you.

There is one thing I would like your opinion on and that is.

Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

although it plainly says that the 144.000 are of Israel it also says they follow the lamb this has bean bugging me a bit did the Israelite's know who the lamb was when he did come they rejected him.
Do you think it was the Jew's who converted to Christianity and I was thinking of what St Paul said.

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The Lord will descend  will this be to mount Sion Is what Paul saying the same as what revelations is saying as we know our Lord will only descend once so is revelations and what Paul says one and the same event in an other place Paul says.

Rom 9:6  Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The promised seed is Christ as you know so is the church the body of Christ  the children of the promise

Sorry if I have derailed your though process.

Love and Peace
Dave   

* The 144,000:- (Rev. 2:1-8) (Rev. 14:1-5) See also (Ezekiel 9:4-6)
* 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 5:1-4, 9,10; and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; 2:1-12

Hello Dave, (@davetaff)

Forgive me, I can't concentrate on this at the moment, but God willing I will be able to come back to it soon.

In Christ Jesus
Chris



Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #641 on: February 24, 2017, 01:12:12 AM »

Quote
did the Israelite's know who the lamb was, for when He did come they rejected Him?

Do not forget they had first hand knowledge of the passover and death through non belief.

They travelled the wilderness with the "Light" before them

They knew the  shekinah glory,

I might ask "who can know Christ - being that no one can see the face of God and live"

Yet they saw more of God/Jsesu - than most of us

A lot of revelations seem's to be about Judgement - well here in the desert wilderness we meet the same judgement.

We must remember that the Old testament is a shadow of the New -yet revelations takes us beyond our understanding ,

It is a book of all pictures/metaphors/images and stuff beyond our wildest imaginations - it is when heaven touches earth


Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #642 on: February 24, 2017, 01:31:32 AM »
They believed because they saw Him working in their lives.

They believed because He led them through a wilderness [even though many of them died]

They believed because thier sandals never wore out [miracles = manna - water - provision in a desert]

Deuteronomy 29:5 Yet the LORD says, "During the forty years that I led you through the wilderness, your clothes did not wear out, nor did the sandals on your feet.

Have you ever heard of shoes and clothes lasting forty years  -  in this modern age ?

It is the sign of the fish and bread/ it is the sign of provision/

God may not multiply but He may cause things to last  longer...

Do not be misled - you are grafted into the Vine and so you will read John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."


You are one who have not seen and yet you believe...

yes you will testify how God has worked in your life as an ongoing testimony or word of God BUT..

You will not rewrite the bible [word]  but they did and this is the testimony of the Old Testament which they wrote [you cannot]





Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #643 on: February 24, 2017, 01:38:21 AM »
One of the most annoying things is that we can never turn the clock back [o how we long too]

The hebrews in the wilderness could never turn the clock back either..

BUT - they turned the clock forward - in that we can learn from them and their experience is where we come from.

Selah and pause..

Now whom learns from our written word ?  [we do - we learrn from the Jews]

Our wrtten word is in God and those who testify about us now...

It is written is heaven and not in blocks of stone.



In other words they lived the word and became the bible we read.

We cannot do that.

We only rewrite His - story when we do what He says [but this is not written now - but rather we copy them/follow/remember/lessons/ and only partake in what they did.

They knew the Holy Spiirt and the Father and Jesus / we are merely walking in their shadow.

We like to believe we have found someting new - but rhe written word ia a shadow of what is to come.


Tell me of a miracle that is not written about - it is all shadowed in the Old testament and if it is not then there were simply not enough pages John 21:25  Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written

Not all  is and was written down - thus we only know what we need to know .

I bet the Jews knew more than we do - as they saw at first hand what Jesus could do and they knew the history [we do not]

The next step is "how were their hearts and what were their steps"


We are not Jewish - but we walk in the shadow of..

We follow Jesus and His shadow as they did..

Many of them -  stepped the steps of Ascension long before we were ever born and knew more about hebrew and greek before we ever came into existence.

Many were born again long before our birth - I suppose what I am saying is  / they rejected Him [not all] because mankind does not change throughout the ages [God knows mankinds heart] whatever year it may be.


 Now in 2017 people coninue to reject God and Jesus and we only have to look at the tablet/bible/ to see how this works.

We have not found anything new - but we can change His- story... [the books not written] and this is where the real revelation  begins...

Some of them walked in the Holy Spiirt - as we do - thus we walk outside/or in  the written word today - but learn from it..


The written word must always be the base "of God working in our lives now"



Online davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #644 on: February 24, 2017, 02:23:58 PM »
Hi Chris
You said
Quote
Forgive me, I can't concentrate on this at the moment, but God willing I will be able to come back to it soon.
   

I hope my posts are not causing to much stress I know my thoughts are a bit radical at times but they are thoughts that come into my mind and I like to put them on here so that others can shoot holes in them with the cannon of scripture.

I feel that my last posts on the 144.000 are causing you discomfort if so would you prefer to shelve them for a bit and take them up as a separate thread later on and return to the Revelation's thread where you left of and carry on to the end.

If so that's fine with me I would jest like to add one more verse to what I have said before its quite crucial to my train of thought and it is.

Exo_4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

My interpretation is if Israel is God's firstborn son then Israel is the first Adam.

You don't have to answer  this now jest to keep it in mind when thinking of the subject of the 144.000 the first and the last Adam.
I look forward to you rolling out your cannons. :azn:

Love and Peace
Dave 

Online davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #645 on: February 24, 2017, 02:48:46 PM »
Hi Q
Thank you for your replies quite a lot to absorb will do my best to answer as I understand it.

The Israelite's certainly new God no doubt but did they know the lamb when he did come to Israel he was nothing like they were expecting he was meek and lowly he reduced there 613 laws and ordinances down to two how can we say they followed the lamb they did not know what the lamb preached.

I get the impression that you think I am rewriting the scriptures or saying things that aren't there I believe everything I say is based on scripture to the best of my ability.
I don't change the scriptures but interpret them differently to others as the spirit leads me If what I say is wrong then by all means blow holes in it with the cannon of scripture I will welcome it.

We owe the Jew's a great dept  of gratitude they have suffered greatly so  that we can have the word of God we owe them a great big thank you.

love and peace
dave   

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #646 on: February 24, 2017, 05:58:21 PM »
Wow!! Good going, @Question, three in a row! :)

I won't answer anything at the moment, but have enjoyed reading through your posts, and considering those by @davetaff too.  I need to take five, but God willing will be back soon.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #647 on: February 25, 2017, 12:02:19 AM »
Quote
I get the impression that you think I am rewriting the scriptures

No - nothing implied at all , just giving an alternative view [not even my view]  :D