Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18459 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #632 on: February 22, 2017, 11:30:16 AM »
'And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth;
and there fell a noisome and grievous sore
upon the men which had the mark of the beast,
and upon them which worshipped his image.

(Rev. 16:1)

Hello again,

I am moving on rapidly, in order to cover the ground previously covered by @davetaff.

* The plagues of Egypt were literally true, so I see no reason why these plagues of Revelation 16, should not be taken as, 'literally true' too.

* The first plague produced 'grievous sores'.  A similar 'plague' can be seen on more than one occasion in Scripture, can't it?  In Exodus 9:8-12, and Job 2:7,8 for example.

'And the LORD said unto Moses and unto Aaron,
Take to you handfuls of ashes of the furnace,
and let Moses sprinkle it toward the heaven in the sight of Pharaoh.
And it shall become small dust in all the land of Egypt,
and shall be a boil breaking forth with blains upon man,
and upon beast, throughout all the land of Egypt.
And they took ashes of the furnace, and stood before Pharaoh;
and Moses sprinkled it up toward heaven;
and it became a boil breaking forth with blains upon man, and upon beast.'

(Exo 9:8-12) 

* It was one of the judgments that Israel was warned about in Deuteronomy, 28:15,27,35; and Lev. 26:16.

'But it shall come to pass,
 if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God,
to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes which I command thee this day;
that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:'


'The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt,
and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch,
whereof thou canst not be healed.'


'The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs,
with a sore botch that cannot be healed,
 from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.'


* This could not be clearer could it?

* In relation to the point made by @Question in Reply #588, concerning the plagues of Egypt being related to the god's they worshipped, in the margin of my Bible, in relation to Exodus 8-11, where sores broke out on the bodies of the Egyptians and on their livestock, the god in question was called, 'Typhon'. a demon of death and evil.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad







Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1434
  • Total likes: 106
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #633 on: February 22, 2017, 04:22:25 PM »
Hi Chris
wonderful posts so much information and scripture I think getting the word of God out on the net can only be a good thing don't you.

There is one thing I would like your opinion on and that is.

Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

although it plainly says that the 144.000 are of Israel it also says they follow the lamb this has bean bugging me a bit did the Israelite's know who the lamb was when he did come they rejected him.
Do you think it was the Jew's who converted to Christianity and I was thinking of what St Paul said.

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The Lord will descend  will this be to mount Sion Is what Paul saying the same as what revelations is saying as we know our Lord will only descend once so is revelations and what Paul says one and the same event in an other place Paul says.

Rom 9:6  Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The promised seed is Christ as you know so is the church the body of Christ  the children of the promise

Sorry if I have derailed your though process.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #634 on: February 22, 2017, 07:03:06 PM »
Thank you Dave,

I have begun answering your post, but can't finish it at the moment. 
You have not derailed my thoughts :)

Back soon (God willing)
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #635 on: February 23, 2017, 01:39:21 AM »
@Question
@davetaff

@Question made an interesting point in his response to you, Dave in Reply#588, which I would like to include in our consideration of the plagues which follow in chapter sixteen in the Judgments of God.

* Yes, each plague was directly associated with a god that the Egyptians worshipped, and it will be good to take note of each one, perhaps, as we go along.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Thankyou for that ministry of encouragement  :D -


Quote
* In relation to the point made by @Question in Reply #588, concerning the plagues of Egypt being related to the god's they worshipped, in the margin of my Bible, in relation to Exodus 8-11, where sores broke out on the bodies of the Egyptians and on their livestock, the god in question was called, 'Typhon'. a demon of death and evil.

Yes the bible repeats itself I believe



Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #636 on: February 23, 2017, 05:05:39 AM »
Thankyou for that ministry of encouragement  :D -  not used by those who do not see "ministry"


Yes the bible repeats itself I believe

Hello @Question,

I am so glad to see your response, and I am sure that Dave is too.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Cariad

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1434
  • Total likes: 106
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #637 on: February 23, 2017, 10:35:50 AM »
Hello @Question,

I am so glad to see your response, and I am sure that Dave is too.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Cariad

Hi
Yes I do welcome Questions input and I agree with him 100% when he says the Bible repeats itself the same story on a grander scale.
For example Abraham went up to Egypt and came back to the promised land as did Israel same story on a grander scale then Israel taken into Babylon and returned to the promised land another expansion then the final expansion which we are discussing in revelations when God takes out a people for himself from the world.
I also see this as an expansion of the creation story the crowning glory of which is man in Gods image which of course is Christ Jesus our Lord when he becomes one with his bride the church the seed promised in Genesis.

So the question is can we discuss Revelations in isolation.

Love and peace
Dave



Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #638 on: February 23, 2017, 12:36:18 PM »
There is one thing I would like your opinion on and that is.

Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

although it plainly says that the 144.000 are of Israel it also says they follow the lamb this has bean bugging me a bit did the Israelite's know who the lamb was
.

Q. did the Israelite's know who the lamb was, for when He did come they rejected Him?

Hi Dave,

Regarding your question (above), 'Did Israel know?' I think first of all of the words of John the Baptist.  Remember, Dave? In John 1:29? ' On the morrow, John sees Jesus coming toward him and said, Behold! The Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world!' Then in verses 36 & 37, when Jesus was passing by, John repeated  the words, 'Behold, the Lamb of God!' and they immediately followed Jesus, I believe it was Andrew and John.  Later they told Peter, Andrew's brother, that they had found the Messiah.  So Andrew and John knew immediately that 'The Lamb of God' was 'The Messiah' for Whom all of Israel looked.  So they knew.  How did they know? Well, it must be through the testimony of the Old Testament Scriptures, mustn't it?  Look at Isaiah 63, for example, especially verses 6 & 7,

'All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and He was afflicted,
yet He opened not His mouth:
He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb,
so He openeth not His mouth.'


* Then again, Dave, they were reminded of it with every Passover act of remembrance weren't they, by the death of a Lamb.
* Look at these glorious words from 1 Peter 1:18-20, too:-

'Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things,
as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by Him do believe in God,
that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory;
that your faith and hope might be in God.'


* Peter spoke here with an understanding born of the Spirit of God, Who, Himself, brought to Peter's remembrance the things that the Lord had spoken while here on earth (John 14:6).  His eyes had been opened that he may understand the Scriptures, like those disciples on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:45); so that the passages concerning Christ in the Old Testament Scriptures were blazoned with the glorious light of the knowledge that only God could give.  The Lamb had been slain from before the foundation of the world' (Rev.13:5)

Praise God!

* Re. your second point, when He did come they rejected Him

There were many in Israel at the time of Christ, and during the Acts, who (individually) believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, and acknowledged Him as their Messiah, wasn't there?  Yet the nation, via their leaders, rejected Him, for they did not want to acknowledge Him. So they were blinded (temporarily).

Re. 'Did Israel know? See - (Rom.10:19-21)

I am still working on the second part of your post, Dave.
Back soon God willing. :)
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1434
  • Total likes: 106
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #639 on: February 23, 2017, 05:20:10 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply so far you make some very good points of course John the baptist new who Jesus was did they not know each other in the womb.
We know the the apostles and others followed and believed but this was a relatively small number even if it were in the thousand it is well short of 144.000.
would it be fair to say that those who lived before Christ came into the world could have followed the lamb where ever he went may be the patriarchs and prophets but that's still only a handful.
So it seams to me that the 12 apostles represent the twelve sons of Israel who had 12.000 sons each 144.000 and this is the bride of Christ.
So yes you are right Revelations is about Israel the new Israel the last Adam which is Christ the seed of Genesis this has always bean the plan from the beginning.
The first Adam being first Israel and all Israel will be saved.

Then we have

 Rev 7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Who are all these I believe these are the children of God

Love and Peace
Dave