Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18476 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #608 on: February 13, 2017, 05:54:32 PM »
Hi Cariad
Sorry for that diversion maybe time to continue where we left of.

Rev 14:7  Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgement is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8  And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9  And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Here we have the beginning of God taking control the time for his judgement has come but first the angle proclaims the gospel to give the unbelievers one more chance to repent what a loving God we have.
I wonder what the time scale is between the gospel being preached and the fall of Babylon ( I think Babylon is the great financial houses of our time).
Wonder what the mark of the beast is I don't think is something we can see only God maybe.
Then we have those who have worshipped the beast and his image they will be tormented with fire and brimstone like I have said before I don't believe it is literal fire but spiritual.

Love and Peace
Dave
 
Reply to P72 (#573)

Hi Dave,

'The Everlasting Gospel' is called 'everlasting' because the acknowledgement of God as Creator was there in the beginning, before any other gospel message was given, and here, long after the other gospel messages have been given, ie., 'Kingdom' , 'grace' and 'glory',  it is being declared at the end, at this time of crisis and judgement.  This is very different to the gospel messages we read of in the gospels, the book of Acts and the Epistles, isn't it?  Here we hear nothing of 'repentance', or of 'grace', simply the call to mankind to give to God the glory due to Him as The Creator of the heavens and the earth ... . (Rev.14:7)

"Fear God, and give glory to Him;
for the hour of His judgment is come:
and worship Him that made heaven, and earth,
and the sea, and the fountains of waters."


* Is this not the message that the heavens have been declaring throughout time, (Psa 19:1-4a)

'The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth His handywork.
Day unto day uttereth speech,
and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language,
where their voice is not heard.
Their line is gone out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.'


* This makes the words of Romans 1:18-32 loom large in my thoughts, especially in the light of the judgement which is to come here in Revelation.

'For the invisible things of Him
from the creation of the world
are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are made,
even His eternal power and Godhead;
so that they are without excuse: ... '

(Rom.1:20) 

In Christ Jesus
Chris



Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #609 on: February 13, 2017, 06:07:33 PM »
Hello again,

You have progressed through chapters 14 -16, through to 17:10, I see, Dave.  I will read them through and come back to you, (GW). My last entry, before my absence, was on P.72 (#572), where we had diverted a little from chapter 14.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #610 on: February 13, 2017, 07:12:12 PM »
Hi Cariad
Sorry for that diversion maybe time to continue where we left of.

Rev 14:7  Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgement is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8  And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9  And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Here we have the beginning of God taking control the time for his judgement has come but first the angle proclaims the gospel to give the unbelievers one more chance to repent what a loving God we have.
I wonder what the time scale is between the gospel being preached and the fall of Babylon ( I think Babylon is the great financial houses of our time).
Wonder what the mark of the beast is I don't think is something we can see only God maybe.
Then we have those who have worshipped the beast and his image they will be tormented with fire and brimstone like I have said before I don't believe it is literal fire but spiritual.

Love and Peace
Dave
 
Reply to P72 (#573)

Hi Dave,

Forgive me going back like this.  If it is causing confusion, please tell me.

'And there followed another angel,
saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen,
that great city,
because she made all nations drink
of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'

( Rev 14:8 )

This is prophetic of the pouring out of the last 'vial'. The judgment on Babylon closes up the whole series of God's judgments, and chapter 17 1-3 and 18:2,3 are identified by this announcement of the second angel.

''And there came one of the seven angels
which had the seven vials, and talked with me,
saying unto me, Come hither;
I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore
that sitteth upon many waters:
With whom the kings of the earth
have committed fornication,
and the inhabitants of the earth
have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness:
and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,
full of names of blasphemy,
having seven heads and ten horns.'

(Rev 17:1-3) 

And he cried mightily with a strong voice,
saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen,
and is become the habitation of devils,
and the hold of every foul spirit,
and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
For all nations have drunk
of the wine of the wrath of her fornication,
and the kings of the earth
have committed fornication with her,
and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich
through the abundance of her delicacies.'

(Rev 18:2,3) 

* This book is so complex isn't it, for whereas the announcement of the everlasting gospel by the first angel takes us back to before chapter 13 and the rising of the Two Beasts;  the prophecy of the second angel takes us on beyond the end of that chapter, to 14:4,5, where her 'fornication' refers us to the 'religion' of that time, which is the cause of her judgment; which the 144,000 are not seduced by. (14:4,5):-

'These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth.
These were redeemed from among men,
being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
And in their mouth was found no guile:
for they are without fault before the throne of God.'


* What this 'Babylon' is will be seen in chapter 17.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #611 on: February 14, 2017, 11:29:27 AM »
Hi cariad
Thank you for your replies I did enjoy reading them as I'm sure others will as well a real blessing.

I liked you reference to creation in you first post as you know it's one of my favorite subjects I feel its so vitally important to come to the realization that we have a God who has created everything and I think you are right in saying this is the everlasting gospel.

I will not continue until you are quite sure you are ready are there any more threads you would like me to wait with please let me know.

Love and peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #612 on: February 14, 2017, 02:40:42 PM »
Hello @davetaff,

Do you mind if I continue to respond to previous posts of yours until chapter 17 is reached? if you would prefer me to now carry on from where you left off, though, I will do that.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #613 on: February 14, 2017, 02:53:31 PM »
Hello @davetaff,

Do you mind if I continue to respond to previous posts of yours until chapter 17 is reached? if you would prefer me to now carry on from where you left off, though, I will do that.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris
I don't mind at all in fact I will look forward to your post's as you may have noticed we don't have to many Bible buddies taking part and sometimes I seam to be on my own when you left so I will look forward to you posts to put me right if I go wrong.
I Have plenty to keep me going crossing swords with Frances  :wink:.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #614 on: February 14, 2017, 06:08:02 PM »
Hello Dave,

Responding still to your replies on P.72/73 (#573/576), in relation to the verses in Chapter 14 concerning the third angel:-

* With the sound of 'The Everlasting Gospel' ringing in their ears, (Rev. 14:6,7), exhorting them to 'fear God' 'give glory to Him' and 'worship Him ', now comes the reason for it's proclamation.  For now we hear the warning given, which like the sounding of the everlasting gospel, is intended to put steel in their backbone and enable them to stand in this evil day.

'And the third angel followed them,
saying with a loud voice,
"If any man worship the beast and his image,
and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,
which is poured out without mixture
into the cup of His indignation;"
 
"and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone
in the presence of the holy angels,
and in the presence of the Lamb:
and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:
and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image,
and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

(Rev. 9-10)

* Now we can see the nature of the sin which is to be punished: it is the worship of the Beast, and the receiving of his mark.  Each part of the threatened punishment is intended to be dwelt on and considered separately, with the repeated use of the word, 'and', to impress upon them the dire nature of the sin, and the severity of the punishment.  It is intended to instill fear, a dread that will keep those who live in that day from being drawn away and enticed by the Beast and the False Prophet, their temptations and their threats.

* We have been taken here back before chapter 13, and the rising of the beasts.

* God is strengthening them to 'endure unto the end'.  This is 'the patient endurance of the saints'. 

* They are encouraged to 'keep the commandments of God', and not the commandments of the Beast, and keep 'the faith of Jesus', and not believe the religion of the False Prophet.

* With the threat also comes a consolation and encouragement in verses 12,13.

'Here is the patience of the saints:
here are they that keep the commandments of God,
and the faith of Jesus."


* Then there is another voice, not that of the third angel

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,
"Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth:"
"Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours;
and their works do follow them"'

(Rev 14:11-13)

* This consolation shows that it is better to die than to yield, better to die even a martyrs death, than to live but come under God's curse and suffer such awful consequences. 'Their works do follow them' means that their patient endurance and work of faith in withstanding in the evil day will be rewarded eternally.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #615 on: February 15, 2017, 11:16:20 AM »
HI
Carrying on where we left of

Rev 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13  And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Rev 14:14  And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Should we be sorry for those who worship the beast they don't have a very good future to look forward to is the worship of the beast the love of money.

1Ti 6:10  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

those who are there in the last day will certainly need all the patience they can muster it's going to be a very trying time maybe it's already started it's going to require great faith in the final out come but we know all Gods promises are certain.

It's great to know we will not only enter into our rest but also into Gods Sabbath rest in spite of all the trials and tribulations we have a wonderful future awaiting us.
 
The next vision we have is the son of man instead of a crown of thorns he has the crown of his kingship and he is preparing to harvest the earth what a wonderful vision.

Please add your thoughts

Love and Peace
Dave
Rev 14:11 can be paralleled with Genesis 19:28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace;

Where even  those who are saved may look back  26But Lot?s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.

Even though we are the salt of the earth in another metaphor.

We see the effect of the past upon the lives of Lot and his daughters as  lot sought/seeks  refuse in a cave with his daughters and his daughters lay with him.
#577/579 P73 - by davetaff

'And I looked, and behold a white cloud,
and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man,
having on His head a golden crown,
and in His hand a sharp sickle.

And another angel came out of the temple,
crying with a loud voice to Him that sat on the cloud,
Thrust in thy sickle, and reap:
for the time is come for Thee to reap;
for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
And He that sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth;
and the earth was reaped.'

(Rev 14:14-16)
 
Hello @davetaff,

This is the last time that the title, ?Son of Man?, is used.  It connects the Lord Jesus with the earth and it?s dominion.  Therefore used of this, 'harvest of the earth'.

* 'The Son of Man' was the 'sower' in Matt. 13:37, and here the Son of Man is, 'the reaper'.

In Psa.21:3, it says, prophetically: 'Thou settest a crown of pure gold upon His head.'  This is a token of His Dominion.

* You, Dave, have drawn the comparison between the crown of thorns placed on our Lord?s head by the hands of soldiers in mockery and scorn, on the earth where He had no place to lay His head; and the golden crown that He is wearing here, placed on his head by Divine hands, worn now, in this day, when He is to judge the earth.  What a contrast this is, between His humiliation then, and His position of Glory and Honour now, isn't it?

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad