Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18457 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #568 on: November 04, 2016, 09:31:23 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your posts interesting but I'm not sure I agree with all that you say About (Rev 14:1-4)  you say This vision is in heaven on what do you base this statement is there any where in scripture which states mount Sion is in heaven.
You say the 144.000 are from Israel why the scripture tell us they follow the lamb.

 Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Israel did not follow the Lamb they crucified him I am willing to concede that there were those in Israel who done the will of God and God used to proclaim gods word through the holy Spirit but I'm not sure that's the same as   follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.
To follow the Lamb would mean one would need to know who the Lamb was and what his message was I would think.
Or do you mean all the Jew's who converted to Christianity in the early church but that would mean they ceased to be Jews.

You Quoted

 See also, Ezekiel 9:3-4
'And the glory of the God of Israel
was gone up from the cherub, whereupon He was,
to the threshold of the house.
And he called to the man clothed with linen,
which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
And the LORD said unto him,
"Go through the midst of the city,
through the midst of Jerusalem,
and set a mark upon the foreheads
of the men that sigh and that cry
for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof."

This could well be a reference to the early church in Jerusalem who were being persecuted for preaching the gospel don't you think.

Love and Peace
Dave
'And they sung
as it were a new song
before the throne,...
'
(Rev.14:3)

Hello Dave, (@davetaff),

You asked me to give evidence that Rev.14:1-4 takes place, in vision, in Heaven.

* The singers are 'before the throne', and the throne is in Heaven,
see also verse five. '... before the throne of God.'

- Galatians 4:26 speaks of a 'Jerusalem' which is 'above'.
- Hebrews 12:22 speaks of the 'heavenly Jerusalem'.
- 'Zion' is, like the temple, in Jerusalem on the Earth, so both are therefore to be found in the Jerusalem which is above. The temple is spoken of in Rev.11:1, as  being 'opened in Heaven', here Zion is spoken of also within the context of 'Heaven'.

- The 144,000 are a believing Remnant, they most certainly, 'follow the Lamb'. They are the firstfruits unto God.
- I believe that God says what He means and means what He says: therefore I believe that the 144,000 were sealed from among the twelve tribes, as we are told in the seventh chapter of Revelation.

Thank you, Dave,
In Christ Jesus
Cariad






Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #569 on: November 05, 2016, 09:52:53 AM »
Hello again,

What follows in chapter 14:6-20, is the 5th vision, 'on Earth'.

*No angel has been seen or heard since the seventh angel sounded the seventh trumpet in Rev. 11:15.  This shows that the passage 12:1-15:8 is parenthetical, and is one series or episode.

* This 5th vision on earth consists of the appearance of six angels consecutively, each having his separate mission, and all but one (the fifth) having it's own proclamation. They tell us God's side of what is going to happen; and what He is doing during the time that the Beast and False Prophet are operating (Rev. 13). They reveal also the remaining judgments contained in the rest of the Book.

* I read that the 6 angels, with the 'Son of Man,' make 7 heavenly appearances and utterances in all.

* In Rev.14:6,7, we see the 1st Angel:-

'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting gospel to preach
unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Saying with a loud voice,
"Fear God, and give glory to Him;
for the hour of His judgment is come:
and worship Him that made heaven, and earth,
and the sea, and the fountains of waters."
'

(Rev 14:6,7)   

* The word, 'GOSPEL', as we know means - 'GOOD NEWS'.
The news being sounded forth may vary, but it is yet - GOOD.

* We are all familiar with at least two of the gospel messages given in Scripture, 'The gospel of the Kingdom', and, 'The gospel of the grace of God', by which we were saved. 

Praise God!

* Each gospel is preached according to the dispensation to which they belong. For example, in the present dispensation it is only, 'the gospel of the grace of God' which is to be preached (Acts 20:24), and he is accursed who now preaches a different gospel [Gal. 1:8].

* 'The gospel of the Kingdom' was preached by John the Baptist, by our Lord Jesus Christ, and by Peter and the twelve (Matt.4:23; 9:35), and it will yet be preached again in the Great Tribulation, after the Church of God has been taken away (Matt. 24:14).  Then it will be replaced by 'The Everlasting (or eternal) Gospel'.

* 'The Everlasting Gospel' , is so called because it takes us back to the beginning, and tells of the earliest good news, or gospel, preached from God as Creator, and consists of the one great truth which was preached from the beginning. It cannot be preached now, at this time, for now is the day of salvation and not of judgment, now 'The Gospel of the Grace of God' is to be preached while the door of salvation by grace is still open to mankind.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #570 on: November 08, 2016, 12:13:28 PM »
'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting gospel to preach
unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Saying with a loud voice,
"Fear God, and give glory to Him;
for the hour of His judgment is come:
and worship Him that made heaven, and earth,
and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'

(Rev 14:6-7) 

* It is noticeable that it an angel who is proclaiming this gospel, not man.
* It is also, not, 'the day', of God's judgement, but 'the very hour'.

The call is made: 'Fear God and give glory to Him ... worship Him' -  (not the Beast).

* It is on the basis of God as Creator that worship is demanded. 
* Doesn't this indicate the state that the world will finally be in?

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #571 on: November 08, 2016, 03:35:42 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thank you for your posts very interesting concerning the new Jerusalem this is a spiritual building which will eventually come down to earth we are that building that is being put together brick by brick with our Lord as the chief cornerstone and Christs throne is were ever Christ is.
There is no temple in Jerusalem so he can't return there. so any visions of the throne will be where the new Jerusalem is.

Now concerning Israel and the Church of Christ to consider the following.

Eph 2:15  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16  And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

What I understand this to mean is he will make one body out of two the two being Israel and the church this will complete the last Adam one head and one body then we will have man in Gods image the end of creation.

 Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #572 on: November 09, 2016, 05:08:47 PM »
'... ...  concerning the new Jerusalem this is a spiritual building which will eventually come down to earth we are that building that is being put together brick by brick with our Lord as the chief cornerstone and Christs throne is were ever Christ is. ... ... '

Hello Dave, (@davetaff),

Thank you for your response.  You highlight 'the New Jerusalem'.  Let's look at the Scriptures which use this term, I find only two which use these words: Revelation 3:12 and Revelation 21:2. What do they tell us about 'The New Jerusalem'?

'... ...  the city of my God,
which is new Jerusalem,
which cometh down out of heaven
from My God: ... ...'


* The second verse tells us a little more:-

'And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem,
coming down from God out of heaven,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.'

(Rev.21:2) 

* So the New Jerusalem is the City of God Himself: it comes down out of Heaven; and it comes from Him. It comes prepared: How it prepared? We are told that it is prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 

* I believe that the New Jerusalem is a literal city, which is prepared (as a bride is prepared for her husband), with adornment. Those adornments are described later in the chapter (Rev.21:10-27).

'And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,
"Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, (with mankind, not only Israel)
and He will dwell with them,
and they shall be His people,
and God Himself shall be with them,
and be their God."'

(Rev 21:3) 

Praise God!

Thank you, Dave.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad





Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #573 on: November 11, 2016, 05:27:53 PM »
Hi Cariad
Sorry for that diversion maybe time to continue where we left of.

Rev 14:7  Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgement is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8  And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9  And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Here we have the beginning of God taking control the time for his judgement has come but first the angle proclaims the gospel to give the unbelievers one more chance to repent what a loving God we have.
I wonder what the time scale is between the gospel being preached and the fall of Babylon ( I think Babylon is the great financial houses of our time).
Wonder what the mark of the beast is I don't think is something we can see only God maybe.
Then we have those who have worshipped the beast and his image they will be tormented with fire and brimstone like I have said before I don't believe it is literal fire but spiritual.

Love and Peace
Dave
   

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #574 on: November 19, 2016, 08:01:59 PM »
I hope others will join you, here, in the study of this amazing book, Dave.

Love and peace
Cariad

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #575 on: November 20, 2016, 01:42:00 AM »
I hope you are not leaving us @Cariad as I am learning a lot from this and even though there are notmany posters involved - many are reading these posts.

I myself am taken up in work commitments and am unable to be involved as I would like to be.

this does not mean that I am not here