Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18455 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2015, 02:02:07 PM »
I know it is slightly off topic, however I heard an interesting take on the above story. It was about telling the truth in Love. So although Ham told the truth, what was his motive? was he telling the truth out of Love?, or telling the truth just to tell on someone (his father), telling the truth to shame another? I think sometimes some do use truth as a weapon and not out of Love. How many times have you heard 'but I only telling the truth!', when someone says something to often deliberately hurt.
Hi Seeker
I see your point but I think Ham told the truth out of love not self interest and we have to take into account his two brothers who put a blanket over there heads and walked in backwards and covered there father with the blanket I see this as representing the Jew and the Muslim that refuse to accept the truth as told by our lord.

You are right this is way of subject if you wish continue maybe we should start a new thread.

Love and peace
Dave   

Offline Seeker

Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2015, 04:02:06 PM »
Hi Seeker
I see your point but I think Ham told the truth out of love not self interest and we have to take into account his two brothers who put a blanket over there heads and walked in backwards and covered there father with the blanket I see this as representing the Jew and the Muslim that refuse to accept the truth as told by our lord.

You are right this is way of subject if you wish continue maybe we should start a new thread.

Love and peace
Dave   

I'd be happy to continue on a new thread, I doubt I going to get chance to reply today though  :sad:, busy day here, but it might be an interesting topic Love versus Truth and telling the Truth in Love - certainly thought provoking for me  :D

Offline Copernicus B

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2016, 05:26:57 AM »
I'd be happy to continue on a new thread, I doubt I going to get chance to reply today though  :sad:, busy day here, but it might be an interesting topic Love versus Truth and telling the Truth in Love - certainly thought provoking for me  :D
Love and truth are inseparable. If you love someone you will tell them the truth. Often in today`s world those speaking the truth are seen as being unkind, or insensitive. I would like to refer you to the holy scriptures. "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." 12Then the disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?" 13But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted. Matthew 15:12. Have you noticed that Jesus wasn`t exactly the most sensitive of guys when he preached? Has political correctness now pervaded the church? I personally think so. Jesus never asked us to be nice, he asked us to "Be not afraid" I think it`s far easier to be nice than "Not afraid"  So anyway, back to the topic. Since I joined this particular thread and offered my input into it, I stumbled across this video on YT. Yes, I`m a bit of video hunter on YT. Like I said previously, I have heard so many interpretations on this topic that it has left me somewhat bewildered and confused. I have heard Rome is Babylon, Jerusalem is Babylon, America is Babylon ect ect. Now like I said, many make some of the pieces fit well. But on further inspection and on gaining more historical and literary knowledge you find that many of the pieces don`t fit, or that some are missing. So now I`m going to lay my neck on the line here and claim that I have ( at long last) heard the right interpretation. I invite all to view this video of Walid Shoebat, an ex Palestinian terrorist turned Christian giving a seminar on the Antichrist, the beast, the false prophet ect ect. Unless I`m once more misinformed somehow, all the pieces seem to fit perfectly. I will let you decide for yourselves if you agree. It is quite a long video, over 3 hours. But I suggest all watch it since the information in it is invaluable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beJwGV9ctDA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beJwGV9ctDA

Offline francis drake

Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2016, 02:19:51 PM »
May I ask, are you a preterist? Partial preterist? @francis drake

How dare you hurl insults like preterist at me @Copernicus B! Lol
I had to look the word up on Google, and discovered that I am not a preterist.

As you already said to me on the welcome thread, you have no religious affiliations, and I likewise. Affiliations invariable decide what "truths" are true for us, but I prefer to seek the Lord for wisdom, listening to varied sources rather than one prescribed source.

Anyway, back to the thread. I have an inquisitive mind and can see total anomalies between Daniel and John's writings. One is told to seal it up for a distant future but the other tells us that it is imminent. Yet the imminent writings have been pushed massively into the long distant future much further away than the 500 years between Daniel and its fulfillment.
It just don't stack up.

Add to that the image in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. Each section of that image from Babylon through Medo Persia, through Greece, and then finally Rome, the Roman kingdom continues right to the second coming of Jesus Christ with no break. Yet we are taught that the Roman empire collapsed and will rise again.
Plain nonsense in my view. There has in effect, always been a king reigning from the throne of the caesars and using his titles.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

TJ

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2016, 01:03:12 AM »
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I'd be happy to continue on a new thread, I doubt I going to get chance to reply today though  :sad:, busy day here, but it might be an interesting topic Love versus Truth and telling the Truth in Love - certainly thought provoking for me  :D

No it is not off topic and very much to do with the message to the Churches.

As scripture can be used in a variety of ways.

And said to be "The Lord speaking"

But as you say "it is the motive behind the Words"
 
Scripture can also be used to "boost a persons ego, to belittle another, to pedal for profit and a multitude of other purposes.

In doing this we are not using God so much as using scripture.

However the letters to the Churches are spoken through the "Spirit" to the Churches.

How do we define the difference ?



Offline Copernicus B

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2016, 01:38:31 AM »
How dare you hurl insults like preterist at me @Copernicus B! Lol
I had to look the word up on Google, and discovered that I am not a preterist.

As you already said to me on the welcome thread, you have no religious affiliations, and I likewise. Affiliations invariable decide what "truths" are true for us, but I prefer to seek the Lord for wisdom, listening to varied sources rather than one prescribed source.

Anyway, back to the thread. I have an inquisitive mind and can see total anomalies between Daniel and John's writings. One is told to seal it up for a distant future but the other tells us that it is imminent. Yet the imminent writings have been pushed massively into the long distant future much further away than the 500 years between Daniel and its fulfillment.
It just don't stack up.

Add to that the image in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. Each section of that image from Babylon through Medo Persia, through Greece, and then finally Rome, the Roman kingdom continues right to the second coming of Jesus Christ with no break. Yet we are taught that the Roman empire collapsed and will rise again.
Plain nonsense in my view. There has in effect, always been a king reigning from the throne of the caesars and using his titles.
Did you watch the video? It cannot be Rome geographically speaking. Remember when John was taken by the angel to see the woman riding the beast it was into the wilderness, into the desert. Rome does not match that description geographically nor allegorically. The statue of Nebuchadnezzar`s dream was struck at the feet, and the the whole thing fell "Together" at the same time as it is written., This suggests that all these kingdoms will still be in effect when Christ comes for the second time, because all the kingdoms fall together. Who is the liar but he who denies the father and the son. Islam denies that God is father and they deny that he is a son. It is blasphemy to call God father in Islam. I`m not saying Rome is squeaky clean, and she as a church system has many heresies and errors, as does Mormonism and Jehovah`s witness. There are many whore faiths in the world, many apostate churches. But note what it is written on the woman`s forehead, that she is not only a harlot, but the "Mother" of all harlots, the queen bee of them all. Please show me where the Catholic church deny the father and the son. It sounds like you haven`t watched the video and as Walid states, are looking through prophecy though a western lens. But when Jesus reurns, it is to destroy the enemies of Israel, Tyre, Sidon, Edom, Cush, Egypt ect ect. These are all Muslim countries. Where in prophecy does it say that the Lord comes back to fight the gentile western nations? Who is north of Israel? Rome? Or is it Turkey? All the kings of the east shall come against Israel, not the west. Antichrist is not even the greatest power of his time, as was Rome, because it says he challenges a terrible nation, meaning a great and powerful nation. Could this be Islam challenging the most powerful nation on the earth, America? When they have their false messiah (The Mahdi) will they not be filled with confidence and severely challenge the greatest nations on the earth believing he cannot fail. Remember the seven hills are not literal hills, they are kingdoms. If they were not kingdoms why do they have kings, all separate kings for each hill. Are you telling me that the seven hills of Rome have seven kings each ruling them? How would that make any sense.  I suggest that if you have not watched the video, that you watch it. All of the bible prophecy in Daniel and revelations where set in the middle east and nowhere else. If this is not so please show me where they are mentioned. Has Damascus been destroyed and left in utter ruins? No it has not. You may not be a preterist but maybe a partial preterist. I do not mean that as an insult of course. Peace. PS, have you not thought that at the time of Daniel it was rather distant, but when John was given his visions, the time was much sooner. It is now that we are living in the great "knowledge and information age" where knowledge is "Greatly" increased. And it is now that the "Great falling away" is happening, which must happen before the Lord comes. Thank you phony evolution. Once again, peace, and peace to you all.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2016, 02:49:22 PM »
Hi Copernicus
I've had a look at the video and he seamed to know what he was talking about and he made some interesting points not sure if everything he said was right one would have to check it out against the scriptures of course that mite take some time.
I liked the way he used the whole bible to make his point I've always thought you can't read the scriptures in isolation everything you read and interpret must harmonise with the rest of  scripture with Love being the corner stone on which we base our interpretation

So how will the God of Love destroy the the Muslim I say with Love when Christ returns when they see how wrong they have been when they fall down before him in adoration the same will be for the Jews when they recognise there Messiah.
Our Lord dose not fight with guns and tanks and bombs but with the sword of his mouth the word of God

 Rev 2:12  And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

Love and Peace
Dave
 

Offline Copernicus B

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2016, 07:06:04 PM »
Hi Copernicus
I've had a look at the video and he seamed to know what he was talking about and he made some interesting points not sure if everything he said was right one would have to check it out against the scriptures of course that mite take some time.
I liked the way he used the whole bible to make his point I've always thought you can't read the scriptures in isolation everything you read and interpret must harmonise with the rest of  scripture with Love being the corner stone on which we base our interpretation

So how will the God of Love destroy the the Muslim I say with Love when Christ returns when they see how wrong they have been when they fall down before him in adoration the same will be for the Jews when they recognise there Messiah.
Our Lord dose not fight with guns and tanks and bombs but with the sword of his mouth the word of God

 Rev 2:12  And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

Love and Peace
Dave
Hi Dave, thanks for your response. I think it would be a mistake to think that God will not Punish mankind, and severely too. What did Jesus say?

The master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:51

Now I`m sure that these sound like very harsh words indeed, and these coming from the most humble and meek saviour. How do we perceive love? Is it all fluffy little kittens and candy floss? Possibly, in part. There is a tender and gentle side to love, for those who accept it. But for those who reject love, I think it`s a burning furnace of anger. Anyway, back to the thread, I have to admit that Walid`s interpretation is the best I have come across, and I do believe the Lord chose him to enlighten western minds in regards to bible prophecy. Indeed today in the news, Saudi Arabia greatly offended the rest of the Muslim middle east by executing terrorists. They have said she will pay a heavy price for this. So going back to revelations it says that the kings who destroy her are of "One mind" This one mind means they all think the same, and have the same faith, namely Islam. You will find that all bible prophecy is based in the middle east. Saudi Arabia is one of the richest oil nations in the world, and and the kings of the earth are made rich by her. I do indeed think Wlaid has got it right. And what irony that the Lord would choose someone from that utter false Antichrist religion to expose it and enlighten us in regards to bible prophecy. Peace to you.