Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18449 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #544 on: October 23, 2016, 10:48:17 AM »
Hi Cariad
Thank you for your post I hope I don't cause you to many sleepless nights we all need our beauty sleep :bedtime2:

back to the matter in hand I think we could dwell on this subject for some time I think we will need to consult the epistle to the Hebrews.
 My train of thought at the moment is Aaron was appointed as High priest in Israel his dress was very specific dictated by God and seams to be mirrored in the new Jerusalem.
Now we know we have a high priest who has entered into the holy of hollies and sits at the right hand of God and we know that he will return again to earth in glory.
Now as Aaron was clothed in his glorious raiment which are only shadows of things to come Our high priest Jesus Christ will come clothed with the realities all those chosen out of Israel and the Church.
Question, is the new Jerusalem the glorious return of our Lord.

Love and Peace
Dave     

Hi Dave, (@davetaff),

I enjoyed your post, and acknowledge the truth you have brought forward regarding the priesthood of Christ, though I am more inclined towards the fact that the precious stones which will ornament the Holy City, as a bride adorned for her husband, are representative of the twelve tribes of Israel.

I can't consider this further at the moment, but will be back, (God willing).

Love, Grace and peace to you.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #545 on: October 23, 2016, 03:50:06 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your reply I'd jest like to say I'm going away for a few days next week and may not be on line but I will be back next weekend.

Back to topic lets look at the following verses

 Rev 21:14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Rev 21:19  And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20  The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

so the whole foundation of the new Jerusalem is built on the foundation of the twelve apostles who preached the gospel of Jesus Christ.

As for Israel they where the twelve gates to the city.

Rev 21:12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13  On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

I take this to mean through Israel we are led to Christ and through Christ we are led to God.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #546 on: October 24, 2016, 05:59:32 PM »
Rev. 21:10-14

'And he carried me away in the spirit
to a great and high mountain,
and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem,
descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God:
.. and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
.... and had a wall great and high,
...... and had twelve gates,
........ and at the gates twelve angels,
.......... and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:(Exodus 28:15-21)
........ on the east three gates;
...... on the north three gates;
.... on the south three gates; and -
.. on the west three gates.'
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
(Acts 1:13,26)

Rev 21:18-21

'And the building of the wall of it was of jasper:
and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones.
.. The first foundation was jasper;
.... the second, sapphire;
...... the third, a chalcedony;
........ the fourth, an emerald;
.......... The fifth, sardonyx;
............ the sixth, sardius;
............. the seventh, chrysolite;
.............. the eighth, beryl;
................ the ninth, a topaz;
.................. the tenth, a chrysoprasus;
.................... the eleventh, a jacinth;
...................... the twelfth, an amethyst.
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl:
and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.'


Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #547 on: October 25, 2016, 09:53:34 AM »
Hello,

It would be good to remind ourselves of the fact that this is a diversion, even if we continue with it for a while: for we had not progressed beyond Revelation 13.  (See Page 65: #533 & #534).

* In regard to this present consideration of, 'The Bride of the Lamb', 'The Holy City' or 'The New Jerusalem', the content of chapter 19:7,8, concerning 'The Wife', must be noted as differing from, 'The Bride' of chapter 21. For, while 'The Wife' is an existing relationship between God and Israel, (see. Isa.54:5-8 Jer.3:14), rekindled through reconciliation. 'The Bride of the Lamb' is composed of a company drawn from Israel, but newly formed.

'Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him:
for the marriage of the Lamb is come,
and His wife hath made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:
for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.'
(Rev.19:7,8)

* Also, it is important to note the fact that the content of the opening words of chapter 21, are post-millennial. ie.,

'And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
and there was no more sea.'

(Rev 21:1)

* Into this 'post-millennial' situation the city descends. So, 'The Wife' (ch.19) is pre-millennial, and 'The Bride' post-millennial.

Complex isn't it ?!  :D

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #548 on: October 28, 2016, 03:36:03 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your post not to sure about the wife and the bride if Israel is the wife then Christ can't marry the bride that would be adultery would it not like you say it's complex.
As you rightly point out we have gone of on a Diversion do you think it would be better to go back to Rev 13 and come back to this or treat this issue as a separate tread and include the prophecies of Daniel as well as I think they have a bearing on this.
I will wait to hear from you before we continue.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #549 on: October 28, 2016, 07:14:14 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your post not to sure about the wife and the bride if Israel is the wife then Christ can't marry the bride that would be adultery would it not like you say it's complex.
As you rightly point out we have gone of on a Diversion do you think it would be better to go back to Rev 13 and come back to this or treat this issue as a separate tread and include the prophecies of Daniel as well as I think they have a bearing on this.
I will wait to hear from you before we continue.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Hello, Dave, (@davetaff),

Good to have you back.  :D

Re:'The Wife': The 'wife' is earthly (Rev.19), the 'Bride' is heavenly (Rev.21).

* The marriage of the one is on earth (though rejoiced over in heaven beforehand), it is consummated on the earth for 1,000 years.

'And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude,
and as the voice of many waters,
and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying,
"Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him:
for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:
for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."
And he saith unto me,
"Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb."
And he saith unto me,
"These are the true sayings of God."'

(Rev 19:6-9)

* See, Hosea 2:16 and Jeremiah 3:14,

'"It shall be at that day," saith the Lord, "that thou shalt call me Ishi" (ie., my husband).
And shalt no more call me Baali (ie., my lord) ....
And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; ...
I will betroth thee unto me in faithfulness,
And thou shalt know the Lord."'


'Turn, O backsliding children," saith the Lord,
"For I am married unto you."'


* Understanding Revelation 19 of Israel, and Revelation 21 of the Elect Remnant, there is neither Polygamy on the one hand, nor divorce on the other.

- There is an 'earthly calling', which all Israel shares, ('the Wife', or ,'The Sand', of Gen. 13:16)
- There is the 'heavenly calling' of an elect remnant of Israel, ('the Bride', or, 'the Stars', of Gen. 15:5)

* We do need to go back, I think, Dave, to chapter thirteen and then progress to these chapters and perhaps can spend more time on them then.

Hope you had a good time away last week.
In Christ Jesus
Cariad




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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #550 on: October 29, 2016, 02:49:02 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your reply very interesting But like you say lets return to where we were Rev 13:5-8 so the next section is

 Rev 13:9  If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10  He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

This seams to be saying mans inhumanity to man will continue and there is little we can do but to believe in the final outcome our Lords return this requires faith and Patience.
 
Rev 13:11  And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12  And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

here we have a beast out of the earth instead of the sea he is portrayed as a lamb the two horns portray power ( can this be the anti Christ ) are the two horns two political systems democracy and Communism for example.
they both say they are for the good of mankind but that's jest a front, is the fire from heaven a reference to the airborne weaponry we have today especially nuclear weapons.     

Rev 13:14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Is the miracles mentioned here all the technical advances of mankind they would certainly be miracles from John's point of view 
 
Rev 13:15  And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

I think the beast here is satan who has been working in the background so to speak  the lamb with two horns brings him to life so that all can see and worship him.
 
Rev 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

What might the mark be I know in this day and age with the internet there's not much you can do without a login or a pin code.
the number of Man 666 I believe this is a reference to the three stages of creation the sixes represent imperfection satan has bean there every step of the way and I believe it has served Gods purpose.
But we must have faith in Gods promises there will be a new heaven and earth so let us pray even harder  THY KINGDOM COME.

Love and Peace
Dave     

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #551 on: October 30, 2016, 09:16:32 AM »
* Entry 1 of 3 (Cariad)

Hi Dave, (@davetaff)

I see that you have now followed on from Page 65: #533 & #534, with the Scriptures from Revelation 13, beginning where we left off with verse 9.  :D great!

* In this chapter we are shown the effect of the war in heaven upon the earth at large, having already seen the effect of it upon Israel in chapter 12:13-17.  Here in chapter 13, we see the rise of two beasts.  One from the 'Sea' (v.1-10), and another from the 'Earth' (v.11-18), they are identified as, 'The Beast' (or 'wild-beast') (v.1-10), and 'The False Prophet' (v11-18).

* Daniel 7:7-8 & 19-27 describes and explains these manifestations of Satan's power in these two, 'powers,' revealed in chapter 13,  and considered again in chapter, 17, in greater detail.

* We have looked at the description of, 'The Beast', that rises out of the sea (13:1-10) already just briefly in #533 & #534. You have continued by considering  verses, 9-10:-

'If any man have an ear, let him hear.
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity:
he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.'

Quote
(quote @davetaff):
This seems to be saying mans inhumanity to man will continue and there is little we can do but to believe in the final outcome our Lords return this requires faith and Patience.

* This does indeed require 'faith' and 'patience', which reminds me of, 2 Thess.3:5, 'And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.'  How wonderful this is, isn't it Dave?  To think that we have a part in, 'the patient waiting', not only, 'for', Christ, but, 'of', Christ; for He too is 'waiting', isn't he, Dave?  'For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet'(1Cor.15:25). 'And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.' (1Cor. 15:28

Praise His Holy Name!

* You then go on to consider to second Beast, in verses 11-18, but I will have to leave my response here, and come back later (God willing).

With my thanks to you, Dave, for your consistency and patience,
In Christ Jesus
Cariad