Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18437 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #416 on: August 20, 2016, 02:03:35 AM »
' ... But the court which is without the temple leave out,
and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:
and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.'

(Revelation 11)

'And they shall fall by the edge of the sword,
and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles,
until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.'

(Luk 21:24)

'And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice
by reason of transgression,
and it cast down the truth to the ground;
and it practised, and prospered.
Then I heard one saint speaking,
and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake,
"How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice,
and the transgression of desolation,
to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"
And he said unto me,
"Unto two thousand and three hundred days;
then shall the sanctuary be cleansed".'

(Dan 8:12-14)

The host = the term for the ministers of the sanctuary.

Online davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #417 on: August 22, 2016, 02:29:03 PM »
Hi Cariad
Very good posts as usual do you think the 'the abomination of desolation`may be the dome of the rock jest a thought.

You Quoted
Quote
and the transgression of desolation,
to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"
And he said unto me,
"Unto two thousand and three hundred days;
then shall the sanctuary be cleansed".'
(Dan 8:12-14)
   
 

Do you think this period of time is from the time the Romans sacked Jerusalem and are these days one thousand years long jest another thought.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #418 on: August 22, 2016, 05:45:17 PM »
'and the transgression of desolation,
to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"
And he said unto me,
"Unto two thousand and three hundred days;
then shall the sanctuary be cleansed".'

(Dan 8:12-14)

1) Do you think the 'the abomination of desolation`may be the dome of the rock just a thought.
2) Do you think this period of time is from the time the Romans sacked Jerusalem
3) and are these days one thousand years long jest another thought.

Hello @davetaff,

I split your entry (above) into the questions it contained, I hope you don't mind.
It makes it easier for me. :)

(Q.1) Do you think the 'the abomination of desolation`may be the dome of the rock just a thought.

I can understand how you could have this thought, for I have had it too.  Yet I don't think it is the 'abomination of desolation'.  The reason being that our Lord Jesus Christ in Matt.14:15, tells us that the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, will, 'stand in the holy place'

'When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
    spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place,
    (whoso readeth, let him understand:) ... ... '

(Mat 24:15) 

* In my Bible's marginal notes, against Matthew 24:15, and the words, 'abomination of desolation', reference is made to Dan. 12:11 & Dan 9:27:-

'And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away,
and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.'

(Dan 12:11)

* This is yet future, our Lord tells us where it will stand, 'in the holy place': that is in the temple at Jerusalem.

* The word 'abominations' is Jehovah's name for an idol, as being what he detests (2 Kings 23:13). This causes 'the desolations' which follows it's setting up, in the holy place.

Dan.12:11 is conclusive:-
'And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away,
and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.'


* See also, 2 Thess. 3:3,4.

(Q.2) Do you think this period of time is from the time the Romans sacked Jerusalem

* Antiochus, the type of 'the little horn', defiled the sanctuary, but he did not destroy it.  He cannot therefore be the fulfiller of this prophecy, though he foreshadowed him.

(Q.3) and are these daysof (Daniel 8:12-14) one thousand years long? - Just another thought.

* They are 2,300 days precisely. They need no further interpretation.

Praise God! For His precision and accuracy.

Hope this is helpful.
Thank you for your questions.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #419 on: August 22, 2016, 06:54:09 PM »
'And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:
and the angel stood, saying, "Rise,
and measure the temple of God,
and the altar,
and them that worship therein.


* the holy place, the alter, and those who worship, are to be measured.  Thier safety being the object.

But the court which is without the temple leave out,
and measure it not;
for it is given unto the Gentiles:
and the holy city shall they tread under foot
forty and two months


* the outer court is not to be measured, for it is given over unto the Gentiles, for Jerusalem (the holy city) shall be trodden under foot by the nations for 42 months, 1,260 days, or 3 1/2 years.
.
And I will give power unto my two witnesses,
and they shall prophesy
a thousand two hundred and threescore days,
clothed in sackcloth ... ..."'

(Rev 11:1-3)

* God is going to empower two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days (Rev.13:5; Rev.12:6; Rev.12:14; Dan.7:25; Dan.12:7), maybe this will be during the period of the treading down of the nations, maybe not.  We are not told who these two witnesses are.  Many have sought to identify them as Elijah and Moses resurrected for this purpose, but I would prefer not to conjecture.

* Elijah's prayer which shut up the heavens corresponds with the number of days here, spoken of as 3 yrs and 6 mths. (Luke 4:25 and James 5:17).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

:)


Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #420 on: August 23, 2016, 11:32:30 AM »
And I will give power unto my two witnesses,
and they shall prophesy
a thousand two hundred and threescore days,
clothed in sackcloth
... ..."'

(Rev 11:1-3)

Hello again,

Great detail is given to the mission of these two witnesses.  We read in the following verse (v.4) that they are "the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

* What is the significance of the title used in this verse, 'the God of the earth'

The title is first used in Joshua 3:11,13,

'Behold, the ark of the covenant
of the Lord of all the earth
passeth over before you into Jordan. ... ...


'And it shall come to pass,
as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests
that bear the ark of the LORD,
the Lord of all the earth,
shall rest in the waters of Jordan,
that the waters of Jordan
shall be cut off from the waters
that come down from above;
and they shall stand upon an heap.'

(Jos 3:11,13)

* This is the title which the Holy Spirit uses when right to dominion and authority in the Earth is asserted.
In Joshua 3, Jehovah claims the right to give the Earth to whom He will (Psa.115:16)

'The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S:
but the earth hath He given to the children of men.'

(Psa 115:16)

* So, we can see that the events recorded in Revelation 11, relate to the earth.  But the reference in verse 4, is to Zechariah 4:14,

'Then said he,
These are the two anointed ones,
that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.'


I would like to consider the significance of this, if you don't mind.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad











Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #421 on: August 23, 2016, 11:34:30 AM »
'These are the two olive trees,
and the two candlesticks
standing before the God of the earth.'

(Rev 11:4)

* This refers to Zechariah 3, where the title 'the God of the earth' is used in verse 14, but the while chapter needs to be read, to see the two olive trees and the two candlesticks.

'And the angel that talked with me
came again, and waked me,
as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,
And said unto me, "What seest thou?"
And I said,
"I have looked, and behold
a candlestick all of gold,
with a bowl upon the top of it,
and his seven lamps thereon,
and seven pipes to the seven lamps,
which are upon the top thereof:
And two olive trees by it,
one upon the right side of the bowl,
and the other upon the left side thereof."

(Zech.4:1-3)

Question 1) -'What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?'
Question 2) - 'What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?'
(vv.11,12)

'Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.'
(Zec 4:14) 

* These Two Witnesses are the two Olive trees, this is a figure of speech, a metaphor, meaning that the Two Witnesses represent the two Olive trees.  This is the Holy Spirit's own explanation of these two witnesses. Just as Zerubbabel and Jeshua were raised up, Divinely endowed and protected against Satan's assaults, so in the coming day of Israel's acknowledgement by God (they are at present Loammi, or, 'not my people' because of their unbelief), two other great Witnesses from God will be raised up, corresponding to them, occupying a similar position, empowered by Heavenly power and wisdom, and having a similar ministry.  Thy represent the two Olive Trees for their day, as Zerubbabel and Jeshua were in a former day.

Praise God!  For the perfection of His Holy Word.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad


 Ref. 'Commentary on Revelation' by Dr. E.W. Bullinger

Online davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #422 on: August 23, 2016, 04:23:03 PM »
Hi Cariad
thanks for these posts a lot to consider where to start you asked.

Quote
  Then said he,
These are the two anointed ones,
that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.'

I would like to consider the significance of this, if you don't mind.
 

Seams a good idea to me lets make a start and see where it leads In another passage our  Lord likens candlesticks to the churches.

 Rev 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

as I understand it the word church means called out we know Israel was called out "out of Egypt I called my son" this also applies to Christ so are the two witnesses Israel and the church the body of Christ.

As for the olive trees Paul makes reference to these in Romans.

Rom 11:24  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

So if Israel is a good olive tree a planting of the lord the gentile church has been a wild olive tree but both are olive trees both are witnesses for God.

When God says to them come up here I believe this will be the rapture.

You asked.
Quote
What is the significance of the title used in this verse, 'the God of the earth
 'The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S:
but the earth hath He given to the children of men.'
(Psa 115:16)
 


I believe "the God of the earth"and "the Lord of all the earth" are one and the same it can only be Christ after all everything was created by him and through him.

thats all for now.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #423 on: August 24, 2016, 06:54:34 PM »
'These are the two olive trees,
and the two candlesticks
standing before the God of the earth.'

(Rev 11:4)

* This refers to Zechariah 3, where the title 'the God of the earth' is used in verse 14, but the while chapter needs to be read, to see the two olive trees and the two candlesticks.

'And the angel that talked with me
came again, and waked me,
as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,
And said unto me, "What seest thou?"
And I said,
"I have looked, and behold
a candlestick all of gold,
with a bowl upon the top of it,
and his seven lamps thereon,
and seven pipes to the seven lamps,
which are upon the top thereof:
And two olive trees by it,
one upon the right side of the bowl,
and the other upon the left side thereof."

(Zech.4:1-3)

Question 1) -'What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?'
Question 2) - 'What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?'
(vv.11,12)

'Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.'
(Zec 4:14) 

* These Two Witnesses are the two Olive trees, this is a figure of speech, a metaphor, meaning that the Two Witnesses represent the two Olive trees.  This is the Holy Spirit's own explanation of these two witnesses. Just as Zerubbabel and Jeshua were raised up, Divinely endowed and protected against Satan's assaults, so in the coming day of Israel's acknowledgement by God (they are at present Loammi, or, 'not my people' because of their unbelief), two other great Witnesses from God will be raised up, corresponding to them, occupying a similar position, empowered by Heavenly power and wisdom, and having a similar ministry.  Thy represent the two Olive Trees for their day, as Zerubbabel and Jeshua were in a former day.

Praise God!  For the perfection of His Holy Word.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad[/size]

'These are the two olive trees,
and the two candlesticks
standing before the God of the earth.'

(Rev 11:4)

Hello @davetaffs,

The Two Witnesses are representative of the two olive trees and the two candlesticks that stand before God.  Zechariah chapter 4 gives the Holy Spirit?s explanation for both.

At the time in which Revelation 11, is enacted, the alternative to worshipping the beast is that of worshipping the Creator (Rev.14:7).  All the while when men are aligning themselves alongside the beast, God sustains a powerful miraculous testimony to Himself and His truth, through the witness of these two individuals, by the power of God.

The whole world will have this testimony and become thereby involved in responsibility and guilt.  For they receive the mark of the beast before being deceived by him. (see Revelation 19:20).  So, as in Romans chapter one, mankind will be without excuse.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad