Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18468 times)

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Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #408 on: August 10, 2016, 07:32:50 PM »
Quote
davetaff:
'The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:
and there is no new thing under the sun.'


- then we have this.

'This is the one about whom it is written:
I will send my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way before you.
Truly I tell you, among those born of women
there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist;
yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
From the days of John the Baptist until now,
the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence,
and violent people have been raiding it.
For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
And if you are willing to accept it,
he is the Elijah who was to come.

Whoever has ears, let them hear.'

Eccles. 1:9-11

Here we have our Lord telling us John the baptist is Elijah who was to come.
Elijah did not die but was taken up to heaven which reminds us of Enoch who also did not die
so does Ecc 1:9 take on more meaning does it mean that since the beginning of creation things have been repeating themselves but on a bigger scale each time.

Hello @davetaff,

Reading Ecclesiastes 1:1-11, I don't think that we can ascribe greater meaning to 1:9, than it already has within it's context.
Regarding Enoch and Elijah:-

Enoch: Gen. 5:24; Heb.11:5.
Elijah: 2 Kings 2:9-11; Malachi 4:5,6 
See also:-  Proverbs 30:4 and John 3:13.

The Scriptures do not contradict themselves, so if they appear to do so, it is because our knowledge or understanding is limited: so I leave the record of Elijah and Enoch where it is, and believe also that there is only One Who has ascended into heaven, and that is Christ Jesus our risen and ascended Lord.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad





Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #409 on: August 11, 2016, 02:34:59 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your reply I said what I said because it fit in with my few of scripture which is based on creation of which I believe there are three stages from Adam to Noah and from Noah to Christ and from Christ To the new heaven and earth.
All the stages are based on the creation account in Genesis that's why I think   Ecc 1:9  is relevant because what has happened in the first stage happened in the second stage and will happen in the final stage but with ever increasing power.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #410 on: August 11, 2016, 06:39:46 PM »
Hi Cariad
Thanks for your reply I said what I said because it fit in with my few of scripture which is based on creation of which I believe there are three stages from Adam to Noah and from Noah to Christ and from Christ To the new heaven and earth.
All the stages are based on the creation account in Genesis that's why I think   Ecc 1:9  is relevant because what has happened in the first stage happened in the second stage and will happen in the final stage but with ever increasing power.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hi @davetaff,

That sounds interesting, perhaps you could enlarge on that sometime in a thread of it's own, so that we could consider the way in which each stage mirrors the other.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #411 on: August 13, 2016, 04:08:34 PM »
Hi
Getting back on track that's the trouble with scripture it's so easy to get side tracked maybe it's supposed to be like that ranging over the whole word of God it all intertwines wheels with in wheels so to speak.

thought we could take a look at the next few verses.

 Rev 11:1  And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2  But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3  And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

I wonder is this a temple in heaven or on earth I think maybe on earth in Jerusalem maybe the gentiles here are the Romans who sacked Jerusalem Of course Jerusalem has been trodden down until  the twentieth century.
The next question is who are the two witnesses is it Israel and Christians .
Is the above verses something that has happened or some thing that is going to happen in the near future jest had a thought there is no temple in Jerusalem at the present time so I think the temple is heavenly.

Love and Peace
Dave       

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #412 on: August 14, 2016, 06:16:49 PM »
Hi
Getting back on track that's the trouble with scripture it's so easy to get side tracked maybe it's supposed to be like that ranging over the whole word of God it all intertwines wheels with in wheels so to speak.

thought we could take a look at the next few verses.

Rev 11:1-3 ..... .....

I wonder is this a temple in heaven or on earth I think maybe on earth in Jerusalem maybe the gentiles here are the Romans who sacked Jerusalem Of course Jerusalem has been trodden down until  the twentieth century.
The next question is who are the two witnesses is it Israel and Christians .
Is the above verses something that has happened or some thing that is going to happen in the near future jest had a thought there is no temple in Jerusalem at the present time so I think the temple is heavenly.

Love and Peace
Dave     

'And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:
and the angel stood, saying, "Rise, and measure the temple of God, [/b]
and the altar,
and them that worship therein.
But the court which is without the temple leave out,
and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:
and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
And I will give power unto my two witnesses,
and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.'

(Rev 11:1-3) 

Wow! @davetaff,

What detail we have here!!  What a feast!!  :) 
Look at all those, 'ands', giving emphasis to each one; none must be disregarded or overlooked, all have great importance.

* This takes place on Earth. It has to be because of 'the treading down of the Gentiles' spoken of in verse 2.
* Let's look at the reed first: - "... And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: ... ..."
* We have mention in Ezekiel of a measuring reed. See, 40-42,

Eze.40:8  He measured also the porch of the gate within, one reed.
Eze.41:8 I saw also the height of the house round about: the foundations of the side chambers were a full reed of six great cubits.
Eze.42:16  He measured the east side with the measuring reed, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed round about.
Eze.42:17  He measured the north side, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed round about.
Eze.42:18  He measured the south side, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed.
Eze.42:19  He turned about to the west side, and measured five hundred reeds with the measuring reed.

* The context of these verses is a must read I think, don't you?

-----------------------------

* These opening verses of Revelation 11, need to be accepted as real events, which will yet take place, this is not Roman or Ecclesiastical history.  John is told to measure the holy place, not the temple building as a whole, for the Greek word is, Naos, which refers to the holy place itself.

* In Ezekiel 40:3, the object was for the building of a new temple.  Here it is for destruction, as in (Lam. 2:8; 2 Kings 21:13; 2 Isa.34:11; Amos 7:8,9).

'And the LORD said unto me, "Amos, what seest thou?"
And I said,"A plumbline."
Then said the Lord, "Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel:
I will not again pass by them any more:
And the high places of Isaac shall be desolate,
and the sanctuaries of Israel shall be laid waste;
and I will rise against the house of Jeroboam with the sword.'

(Amo 7:8,9)   

* It is also for protection (see v.1) as in Zech. 2:1-5.  - For part was holy and part profane.

'I lifted up mine eyes again,
and looked,
and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.
Then said I, "Whither goest thou?"
And he said unto me, "To measure Jerusalem,
to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof."
And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth,
and another angel went out to meet him,
And said unto him, "Run, speak to this young man, saying,
"Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls
for the multitude of men and cattle therein:"

"For I," saith the LORD, "will be unto her a wall of fire round about,
and will be the glory in the midst of her."

(Zec 2:1-5)

Praise God!

'And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:
and the angel stood, saying, "Rise, and measure the temple of God,
and the altar,
and them that worship therein.
'
(Rev.11:1)

I will leave it here, davetaff.

Thank you for it.
In Christ Jesus
Chris







Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #413 on: August 15, 2016, 02:44:30 PM »
Hi Cariad
Another great post thanks I'm sure it will be a great benefit to many.
I was wondering about the temple as these verses came to mind.

 2Co 6:16  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Rev 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

It seams that the body of believers are the temple and looking at Rev 21:22 it seams there is no temple in heaven as we understand temple but God and Christ Are the temple.
So The question remains what was the temple John was to measure.

Love and Peace
Dave

Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #414 on: August 17, 2016, 05:21:59 PM »
Hi Cariad
Another great post thanks I'm sure it will be a great benefit to many.
I was wondering about the temple as these verses came to mind.

 2Co 6:16  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Rev 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

It seams that the body of believers are the temple and looking at Rev 21:22 it seams there is no temple in heaven as we understand temple but God and Christ Are the temple.
So The question remains what was the temple John was to measure.

Love and Peace
Dave

'Who opposeth and exalteth himself
above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.'

(2 Thess. 2:4) 

Hello @davetaff,

The verse quoted (above) gives testimony to the fact that there will be, ' a temple of God', in Jerusalem, for Antichrist is to sit as God there; and 'the abomination of desolation' is to be set up there too (Matt. 24:15).

'And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:
and the angel stood, saying, "Rise,
and measure the temple of God, (or, 'the Holy Place')
and the altar,
and them that worship therein.
But the court which is without the temple leave out,
and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:
and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.'

(Rev 11:1,2) 

The fact that 'the Temple', 'the Altar', and 'the Court of the Gentiles', are mentioned, shows that this is not to be interpreted of the Church of God.  The temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem.

*I have read that everything required for it's building is already in place,
and that it's construction will be very quick as a result. :)

Praise God! - His purposes will be accomplished

In Christ Jesus
Cariad



Cariad

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #415 on: August 17, 2016, 05:34:26 PM »

2Co 6:16  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Rev 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Praise God!

Love and Peace
Dave

Hi @davetaff,

The reference you have given from Revelation (21:22) refers to the New Jerusalem, 'the Bride the Lamb's wife', which comes down from heaven to the new earth, and as the verse says, the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.  Whereas the temple which John is asked to measure is upon the earth prior to the new heaven and the new earth.

The reference to believers, individually and corporately, as a temple in which God dwells, is within this present existence, isn't it?  He is our hope of glory.

With love in Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.

Cariad