Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18419 times)

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Serenity

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #120 on: January 22, 2016, 06:09:51 PM »
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I think flashes of lightning that come from God is like when you are reading your Bible and something your reading suddenly jumps out at you, you suddenly understand something in an entirely new light I'd prefer to call it flashes of enlightenment.

Amazing, totally amazing and timing.  I agree with this.

Offline Seeker

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #121 on: January 22, 2016, 07:37:19 PM »

Now I am appealing to members & Guests to take part in this study, as I can tell you and give you information - but it is for you to discover the Truth

Are you implying you have all the answers?  :wink:

Sorry I couldn't resist :embarrassed:. I am following this thread, with interest, but will admit to not fully understanding.

Dawn

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #122 on: January 23, 2016, 08:41:35 PM »
Hi Dave,

Your description of the holy spirit is wonderful and very well spotted about the location of the creatures when comparing Ezekiel and John's visions! I hadn't noticed that before you mentioned it so thank you for pointing it out as I learnt something new. Your suggestion about what that could mean gave me much to think about and, although I can see where you are coming from in that Ezekiel's prophecies concentrate on the earthly (the destruction and then the restoration of Jerusalem), do not John's visions also fortell of an earthly creation?

Yes, John's visions are situated from within the heavenly realm but the way I read it, Revelation tells us of earthly events leading up to second coming of Christ and God's creation of a new heaven and a new earth Rev 21:1

What I see revealed to us through John in Rev is a time when we will be with God in a very real, physical sense and that time is yet to happen.

Having said that and going back to the throne room for a moment, I am giving some more thought as to whether Rev 1 through to Rev 4:1  is about 'things which are'. Is John's description of the throne room telling us of what Christ makes possible for us at the Cross, in the here and now spiritual sense, and does he then move on to earthly events 'which will happen thereafter' Rev 1:19 ?

Much more to ponder about!

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #123 on: January 24, 2016, 05:13:46 PM »
Hi Dave,

Your description of the holy spirit is wonderful and very well spotted about the location of the creatures when comparing Ezekiel and John's visions! I hadn't noticed that before you mentioned it so thank you for pointing it out as I learnt something new. Your suggestion about what that could mean gave me much to think about and, although I can see where you are coming from in that Ezekiel's prophecies concentrate on the earthly (the destruction and then the restoration of Jerusalem), do not John's visions also fortell of an earthly creation?

Yes, John's visions are situated from within the heavenly realm but the way I read it, Revelation tells us of earthly events leading up to second coming of Christ and God's creation of a new heaven and a new earth Rev 21:1

What I see revealed to us through John in Rev is a time when we will be with God in a very real, physical sense and that time is yet to happen.

Having said that and going back to the throne room for a moment, I am giving some more thought as to whether Rev 1 through to Rev 4:1  is about 'things which are'. Is John's description of the throne room telling us of what Christ makes possible for us at the Cross, in the here and now spiritual sense, and does he then move on to earthly events 'which will happen thereafter' Rev 1:19 ?

Much more to ponder about!

Hi Dawn
Thanks for your reply Interesting that you mention creation I believe everything is related to the creation account in Genesis.
I believe there are three creations the first from the beginning to Noah then to Christ and from Christ  to the  new Jerusalem coming down from heaven I find it a bit strange when people talk about going up to Heaven when revelations tells us heaven comes down to us.
The crowning glory of Gods creation is man in Gods image and this has not been achieved yet but will be in Christ so creation is an ongoing event.
I believe Israel is Adam he became a man in Gods image in the time of Salomon the King priest  then it all went wrong so God cut the days of creation short.
 Mar_13:20  And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Then God began a new creation with Christ but this one is different it's a spiritual creation and this will not fail.

sorry got a bit of track what I'm trying to say should we view interpret revelations in the light of creation after all he tells the end from the beginning.

Love and peace
Dave 
   
   

Dawn

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #124 on: January 25, 2016, 08:35:28 PM »
Interesting and yes we can see throughout the bible, from Genesis through to Revelation, how God is reconciling the world to himself. 

I would have to disagree with you about Christ being a creation though (if I understood you correctly?), as I see Christ as God, God the Son (Holy Trinity), and so as creator not created John 1:3.

Lately, I have been trying to figure out at what point during the Rev timeline, is the rapture of the church  (mentioned in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Cor 15:50-54). . Does it happen prior to the tribulation, at a midway point or after? I need to do some reading around this, but any ideas from you or anyone else?

For now, back to the lampstands (which is where I think we left off ?) ......

As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. Rev 1:20

So, I think they would be symbolic of the church and Eph 1:22- 23 tells us that the church is the body of Christ, of which he is the head. 

Offline francis drake

Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #125 on: January 25, 2016, 10:23:37 PM »
Lately, I have been trying to figure out at what point during the Rev timeline, is the rapture of the church  (mentioned in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Cor 15:50-54). . Does it happen prior to the tribulation, at a midway point or after? I need to do some reading around this, but any ideas from you or anyone else?


The rapture cannot be at the middle or end the of the Tribulation. It is impossible for it to be anything other that immediately prior to the Tribulation. I am confident of this not on some major biblical evidence, but on simple common sense observation of presented facts.

Before I explain, everyone studying the subject must surely agree that the seven year Tribulation cannot have a vague starting point, but needs a clear beginning, ie. a recognisable worldwide trigger event. That alone enables a clear middle, and end point. Otherwise how could the Tribulation time period be accounted to match such precisely spelt out scripture.

Every biblical reference to the rapture itself shows it to be sudden surprise affair. This simple fact alone tells me that the Rapture cannot possibly occur at the middle or end of the seven year period as once the Tribulation was triggered, both those possible times would be completely predictable!

With that in mind, now go and check the scriptures to see if they match.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

TJ

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #126 on: January 26, 2016, 02:33:07 AM »
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Interesting and yes we can see throughout the bible, from Genesis through to Revelation, how God is reconciling the world to himself. 

I would have to disagree with you about Christ being a creation though (if I understood you correctly?), as I see Christ as God, God the Son (Holy Trinity), and so as creator not created John 1:3.

Lately, I have been trying to figure out at what point during the Rev timeline, is the rapture of the church  (mentioned in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Cor 15:50-54). . Does it happen prior to the tribulation, at a midway point or after? I need to do some reading around this, but any ideas from you or anyone else?

For now, back to the lampstands (which is where I think we left off ?) ......

As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. Rev 1:20

So, I think they would be symbolic of the church and Eph 1:22- 23 tells us that the church is the body of Christ, of which he is the head.

Revelation 4:5  From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God.

Now we see the Seven Lamps -  being symbolic of the  sevenfold operation ....of the Holy Spirit[Mediator] and we also see  a representation in the "seven eyes"

We see a shadow of this in Exodus 19:16: There were thunders and lightnings and... the voice of the trumpet

Here we see heavens activities in the present tense [present to those who are now living but also present to those now living after death]

As @davetaff suggested although the lightning and the thunder were very real to Elijah and Moses to many in their time and age /era/  the thunder and lightning are/is/was/and will be/   very  real to the living now /past present and fubure and to those now dead but alive in the present tense.l


Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #127 on: January 26, 2016, 04:15:48 PM »
Hi Dawn you said
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I would have to disagree with you about Christ being a creation though (if I understood you correctly?), as I see Christ as God, God the Son (Holy Trinity), and so as creator not created John 1:3. - See more at: http://www.1faith.co.uk/bible-buddies/book-of-revelation-discussion-chapter-by-chapter/msg53797/#new 

I did not mean to imply that Christ was created at that time we know that all things were created through him he was from the beginning with god.
what I meant was he came into the world as a man first to Israel which rejected him, after his resurrection a new creation of man in Gods image began this has always bean the aim of creation but has never bean achieved yet.
I believe one should view Genesis 1 from the beginning to the end of revelations the big picture if you like.
What dose man in Gods Image look like First is Christ the head then comes the church his wife and helper then Comes all there children how many nobody knows what holds it all this together is Love God is Love.
Then everything is handed back to the Father and we become all in all.

Love and Peace
Dave     
http://www.1faith.co.uk/bible-buddies/book-of-revelation-discussion-chapter-by-chapter/msg53797/#new