Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18405 times)

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Dawn

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #112 on: January 19, 2016, 07:58:39 PM »
Lots of great questions are being generated here! From TJ; are the horses only about judgement and are christians to judge in this life (perhaps that one deserves a thread all on its own!?) and from Dave; will we be made complete when united with Christ, how long will the saints reign and judge with Christ and who will be judged, what do the four living creatures represent and what in Rev has come to pass already, is happening now or yet to happen?

I will make a start on the four living creatures mentioned in Rev 4: 6-9 and say that the only other reference to six winged creatures I can find is in Isa 6:2, where they are mentioned as seraphim. But why are they described as full of eyes in front and behind and the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight? Hmmm...I will think more on this and post again later if anything occurs to me. Thoughts from anyone else?



TJ

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #113 on: January 20, 2016, 01:33:17 AM »
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Lots of great questions are being generated here! From TJ; are the horses only about judgement and are christians to judge in this life (perhaps that one deserves a thread all on its own!?) and from Dave; will we be made complete when united with Christ, how long will the saints reign and judge with Christ and who will be judged, what do the four living creatures represent and what in Rev has come to pass already, is happening now or yet to happen?

I will make a start on the four living creatures mentioned in Ref 4: 6-9 and say that the only other reference to six winged creatures I can find is in Isa 6:2, where they are mentioned as seraphim. But why are they described as full of eyes in front and behind and the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight? Hmmm...I will think more on this and post again later if anything occurs to me. Thoughts from anyone else?

Thanks @Dawn   :D



Now we are looking at the elders around the Throne of God and we see that Judgement is temporal.

In  fact Judgement begins in this life and Judgement separates the wheat from the chaff [in this life and the next]

Is the purpose of the Churches wrapped around the Throne only to Judge or is their purpose to worship God ?

Well we see there will be a new earth and a new heaven ! again we see symbolism here as all life will revolve around the creator
in and on  the new earth.

Now heaven does not just touch earth but  heaven will be  on the earth and rebellion against God ? what is to stop a person from taking from
the Tree of Knowledge ? could it be because then we will know all things ? 1 Corinthians 13:12: For now we see only a
reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am
fully known. 
http://www.1faith.co.uk/articulate/the-final-feast/msg53572/?topicseen#msg53572


You see the White horse is the message of Truth , the White horse is "victory" and is "Triumph [conquering] and as
Gills mentions
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"a white horse, in a dream, is a good sign with the Jews "
and the White Horse is compared to Hebrews 4:12;
as the White horse is mentioned in Revelation 19:11; now notice the Rider of the White horse and is not so much the horse but
the Rider of the horse.  @Copernicus B

Now we see how God uses many people to speak - and you can make a compilation now of the forums posts to make an Assessment
of what God Light be saying at this time.


@EnglishRose    @HalfFullGuy  @Israel  @JD  @LastDays








http://www.1faith.co.uk/articulate/the-final-feast/msg53572/?topicseen#msg53572

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #114 on: January 20, 2016, 04:13:19 PM »
Hi
Yes Dawn there are lots of good questions popping up all we need now is some good answers  :azn:
I've had a bit of a Google and thought this site may give us a starting point   http://www.biblefragrances.com/studies/fourbanners.html

I copy an paste a small exert from the site

Neither the Mosaic law, nor the Old Testament generally, gives us any intimation as to the form or character of the standard (degel). According to rabbinical tradition, the standard of Judah bore the figure of a lion, that of Reuben the likeness of a man or of a man?s head, that of Ephraim the figure of an ox, and that of Dan the figure of an eagle;

I'm not saying this is right jest something to think about if it is it would seam the four living creatures may represent Israel it seam's the 12 tribes were in four groups of three under Judah Reuben Ephraim Dan Maybe the wings represent the other six tribes.

Love and Peace
Dave


http://www.biblefragrances.com/studies/fourbanners.html

Dawn

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #115 on: January 20, 2016, 11:19:21 PM »
Great post Dave and I found that link very interesting. It is fascinating to learn that the twelve tribes of Istreal may have displayed the images on four standards whilst encamped in the wilderness, as decoration of the tabernacle and on priest's breast plates, each image representing a tribe and, together, the four primary forms of God's creation. It is interesting to note too description of the creatures in Eze. 1:10; 10:14 corresponds to some degree with that of Isaiah's and John's in Rev and I wonder if they are one and the same?

I think the connection you have made with the isrealites is a compelling one and perhaps the four faces are declaring and confirming to us the God of Isreal? I also think you are right about the eyes meaning that they could see everything there was to see (in your previous post) or perhaps watchfullness . Particularly as we find each of the creatures saying to John "come and see" before the visions of the horses and what then transpires (Rev 6).

What we can conclude about the creatures with some certainty, I think, is that they are involved in worshipping, praising and adoring God and also, being in close proximity to God, must be of significant rank in the heirarchy of angelic beings. Also, that they are very powerful; John describes their voices as 'like thunder' and one of them gives to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God Rev 15:7, suggesting that they have authority from God to announce and inflict judgement. As a side note to this but perhaps linked, Mat 13:39-40 tells us that angelic beings will be involved in separating the righteous from the unrighteous during the harvest at the end of the world.

I found a good article about Angels at https://bible.org/article/angelology-doctrine-angels which you might be interested and which also provides an alternative explanation of the four faces of the creatures (a) The face of the man suggests wisdom, compassion, intelligence and pictures Christ?s humanity as the Son of man, the special focus found in the gospel of Luke; (b) the face of a lion speaks of kingly appearance and pictures Christ as King which is Matthew?s emphasis; (c) the face of a bull or ox portrays a servant,the emphasis seen in Mark; and (d) the face of an eagle speaks of heavenly action and portrays the deity Christ, which is John?s emphasis.

Much to ponder on!
https://bible.org/article/angelology-doctrine-angels

Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #116 on: January 21, 2016, 02:38:53 PM »
Hi Dawn
Thanks for the reply and the link have started reading it still a way to go looks interesting must admit have not thought much about angles.
As for the four beasts the word beast seams to indicate they are of the flesh the four faces or symbols are the blessings Jakob gave to his four sons so I think seeing the four beast as pertaining to Israel is on the right track.

What you said in your last post I found of great interest.

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The face of the man suggests wisdom, compassion, intelligence and pictures Christ?s humanity as the Son of man, the special focus found in the gospel of Luke; (b) the face of a lion speaks of kingly appearance and pictures Christ as King which is Matthew?s emphasis; (c) the face of a bull or ox portrays a servant,the emphasis seen in Mark; and (d) the face of an eagle speaks of heavenly action and portrays the deity Christ, which is John?s emphasis. - See more at: http://www.1faith.co.uk/bible-buddies/book-of-revelation-discussion-chapter-by-chapter/112/?action=post;last_msg=53602#sthash.pj4YHQUi.dpuf   


the four gospels giving a sort of written explanation of these four images supports my theory of the creation of man in Gods image which is Christ. Then we must have a man of the flesh which I see as Israel Or Adam if you like.
So God starts his new spiritual creation in the same way with one man Abraham for Israel and Jesus for us the four gospels mirror the four beasts they represent a long time period from the time of Christ up to the present day and beyond.
So as your post indicates Christ came as a man to be King of Israel became a servant and ascended into heaven.

Love and Peace
Dave   
   
http://www.1faith.co.uk/bible-buddies/book-of-revelation-discussion-chapter-by-chapter/112/?action=post;last_msg=53602#sthash.pj4YHQUi.dpuf

Dawn

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #117 on: January 21, 2016, 06:53:09 PM »
Hi Dave,

You know those good answers you were looking for, well I think we may be finding some! 

The parallels you draw are convincing and show great insight :)

TJ - Yes, those gathered around the thrones worship God.



 

TJ

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #118 on: January 22, 2016, 01:14:00 AM »
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Hi Dave,

You know those good answers you were looking for, well I think we may be finding some! 

The parallels you draw are convincing and show great insight :)

TJ - Yes, those gathered around the thrones worship God.

Yes that is right @Dawn as the book of revelation moves onto Revelation 4:5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God.

Under the context of "Worship of the Creator"

Now we turn to John's vision [interpreted by him] and presented to us 
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These are the seven spirits of God.

These are the seven Lamps ? and this is The Holy Spirit in His sevenfold operation, and personage ?

What do we make of the seven fold Spirit ?




Now I am appealing to members & Guests to take part in this study, as I can tell you and give you information - but it is for you to discover the Truth




Offline davetaff

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Re: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #119 on: January 22, 2016, 05:15:28 PM »
Hi Dawn
Before we move on TJ just like to take up on what Dawn said in a previous post about the similarities between Ezekiel's vision and Johns
they are very similar what made me think was his beasts were flying under the crystal sea and Johns were above.
This made me think that Ezekiel's vision was for the earthly creation and john's for the heavenly or spiritual.

TJ mentioned
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Revelation 4:5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. - See more at: http://www.1faith.co.uk/bible-buddies/book-of-revelation-discussion-chapter-by-chapter/112/?action=post;last_msg=53639#sthash.lfHxjfJr.dpuf 

I think flashes of lightning that come from God is like when you are reading your Bible and something your reading suddenly jumps out at you, you suddenly understand something in an entirely new light I'd prefer to call it flashes of enlightenment.

Love and Peace
Dave   
http://www.1faith.co.uk/bible-buddies/book-of-revelation-discussion-chapter-by-chapter/112/?action=post;last_msg=53639#sthash.lfHxjfJr.dpuf