Author Topic: Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter  (Read 18430 times)

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Serenity

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Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« on: December 03, 2015, 11:37:45 PM »
Book of Revelation has come up quite a bit recently, and there is much misunderstanding or no knowledge of it.  It is a book a lot of people avoid, because it seems complicated or hard to understand.

So thought it might be an idea, to go through each chapter, where we can discuss them together.

So we will start with Revelation 1.

Prologue

1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw?that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.



Serenity

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Revelation Chapter 1 discussion
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2015, 11:41:35 PM »
Greetings and Doxology

4 John,

To the seven churches in the province of Asia:

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father?to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

7 "Look, he is coming with the clouds,"
    and "every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him";
    and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him."
So shall it be! Amen.

8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."


John's Vision of Christ

9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."

12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

19 Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. 20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels[e] of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches"
.


Offline davetaff

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2015, 03:56:12 PM »
Hi Serenity
Sounds like an interesting project the first thing I notice is
 
Quote
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy,
Quote
we can't read it any louder than on the internet so let hope it brings a blessing to others as well.
Next thing I find interesting is the number seven 7 churches 7 spirits that reminds me of the 7 days of creation 7 is the perfect number it reminds us of completion as was creation finished in 7 days I wonder if there was 1 spirit for each day then there is 7 candle sticks maybe one to bring the light of God into each day.

Enough of an old man's babbling s jest as matter of interest I lived in Sweden for a number of years and was told that not so long ago the Swedish church forbid ordinary people to read Revelations did this happen in this country as well.

Love and Peace
Dave

     

Offline francis drake

Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2015, 07:08:37 PM »
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw?that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

I have read all sorts of stuff regarding Revelation, and all seem to place it in the distant future. But nobody has explained why it says, "must soon take place," and, "because the time is near."
I have heard it said that in God's time scale, "soon" could mean thousands of years, but what then about the book of Daniel?
Daniel12v4But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.?
Daniel12v9He replied, ?Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.


Much of the prophetic visions of Daniel came to pass about 600 years later in the time of Christ, so if sealing the book up for Daniel meant about 600 years, what does it say about John's revelations "soon taking place" or "being near".
According to that timescale, much of Revelation should have already happened.

This is just curiosity not my theology!
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Serenity

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2015, 09:16:26 PM »
Quote
Hi Serenity
Sounds like an interesting project the first thing I notice is
Quote
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy,
Quote
we can't read it any louder than on the internet so let hope it brings a blessing to others as well.
Next thing I find interesting is the number seven 7 churches 7 spirits that reminds me of the 7 days of creation 7 is the perfect number it reminds us of completion as was creation finished in 7 days I wonder if there was 1 spirit for each day then there is 7 candle sticks maybe one to bring the light of God into each day.

Enough of an old man's babbling s jest as matter of interest I lived in Sweden for a number of years and was told that not so long ago the Swedish church forbid ordinary people to read Revelations did this happen in this country as well.

Love and Peace
Dave

     

I like your babbling dave, i'm glad you joined in on this thread :D
Didn't know Swedish church had forbidden people to read Revelations, out of curiosity why is that, do you know?
I don't think it happened here, but its like being told not to say happy Christmas because its 'politically incorrect' oh okay then, thanks for spurring me on to say happy Christmas all the more  :rolleyes:

I know very little about this Book intentionally, so I am simply musing and learning as I go along with everyone else.

Yes the amount of 7's is interesting.  Reminds me of all the 3's I was on about in another scripture/thread other day (cant remember which now).

I also find it interesting how you reverted or took it back to 7 days in creation (the 7th day being rest day)...because I see a returning to innocence going on with our walks/relationships with God.

Also interesting, is the 7 candlesticks bringing God's light into each day...this had me think about lamp on a stand or lampstand, being lights on a hill, not hiding them in a bushel...so there is more of God's light 'out in the world' than these 7 in each day.

The 7 spirits again is interesting, I was thinking about this a few weeks back, think I mentioned it somewhere in a thread about 'what are these 7 spirits'? maybe we should look into that more.

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father?to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.


So this beginning bit to me, shows the Trinity, shows the work Jesus did...reconciling us.  Establishing God's kingdom on earth through His church (body of believers), not only through the church, but the church itself being the kingdom (a kingdom) not only that but with a king-dom denotes royalty, so an affirmation of being sons and daughters of the royal priesthood.  That not only did Jesus come to serve and not to be served, but this is what we are ALL called to be and do, servants of and for God.


Quote
coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword

Thought would pick the easy bit out, this obviously having me think of the 'word of God'.

Quote
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead.

As this is a vision being spoken about, I thought it interesting that in the vision, John clearly seems to be 'slain in the spirit' as the saying goes...find that fascinating.










Serenity

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2015, 09:35:53 PM »
I have read all sorts of stuff regarding Revelation, and all seem to place it in the distant future. But nobody has explained why it says, "must soon take place," and, "because the time is near."
I have heard it said that in God's time scale, "soon" could mean thousands of years, but what then about the book of Daniel?
Daniel12v4But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.?
Daniel12v9He replied, ?Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.


Much of the prophetic visions of Daniel came to pass about 600 years later in the time of Christ, so if sealing the book up for Daniel meant about 600 years, what does it say about John's revelations "soon taking place" or "being near".
According to that timescale, much of Revelation should have already happened.

This is just curiosity not my theology!

That's right, wade on in and start with the awkward questions! there's always one  :rolleyes:

Maybe the book of revelations, or parts of, is a double edged sword in itself...i.e. talking about the was, is and is to come.

So not dipping my toe into that one any further!

Why do people translate the words 'soon' when time is mentioned in 'because the time is near'?

Time had only ever really been relevant to man and creation.  So in man's understanding of 'the time is near', is certainly not in my mind of being thousands of years.

Offline Deborah

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Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2015, 09:44:17 PM »
Hi Serenity
Sounds like an interesting project the first thing I notice is
 
Quote
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy,
Quote
we can't read it any louder than on the internet so let hope it brings a blessing to others as well.
Next thing I find interesting is the number seven 7 churches 7 spirits that reminds me of the 7 days of creation 7 is the perfect number it reminds us of completion as was creation finished in 7 days I wonder if there was 1 spirit for each day then there is 7 candle sticks maybe one to bring the light of God into each day.
Enough of an old man's babbling s jest as matter of interest I lived in Sweden for a number of years and was told that not so long ago the Swedish church forbid ordinary people to read Revelations did this happen in this country as well.

Love and Peace
Dave


The whole of Revelation is a rhapsody on the number 7 (the number of perfection and completeness). It isn't just the obvious bits (the 7 churches, the 7 seals, and so on). In many of the sections (e.g. the seals, or the trumpets), the 'seven' items are preceded by an introduction, the first four follow a similar pattern, then there are two slightly different ones, then the last one is about the age to come.

This is an outline of the book - seven visions preceded by an introduction. The introduction and first four visions have a clear pattern of sevens. The next two visions are a bit different, and the last one is about the age to come.

Introduction: letters to 7 churches    (chs 1-3)
   1st vision: 7 seals         (chs 4:1-8:1)
   2nd vision:7 trumpets      (chs 8:2-11:18)
   3rd vision:   7 visions              (chs 11:19-15:4)
   4th vision:   7 bowls         (chs 15:5-16:21)
   5th vision:   Babylon and Zion   (chs 17:1-19:10)
   6th vision:   God?s triumph      (chs 19:11-21:9)
   7th vision:   New heaven & earth   (chs 21:10-22:21)
"God has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace." (II Timothy 1:9)

Offline francis drake

Re: Book of Revelation discussion, chapter by chapter
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2015, 09:44:39 PM »
That's right, wade on in and start with the awkward questions! there's always one  :rolleyes:

Maybe the book of revelations, or parts of, is a double edged sword in itself...i.e. talking about the was, is and is to come.

So not dipping my toe into that one any further!

Why do people translate the words 'soon' when time is mentioned in 'because the time is near'?

Time had only ever really been relevant to man and creation.  So in man's understanding of 'the time is near', is certainly not in my mind of being thousands of years.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if Daniel's "seal up the book" is only about 600 years, John's "time is near" is hardly likely to be over 2000 years.
Personally, I take the view that many prophecies have a multiple application, an early and a later occurence. Therefore I believe much of the content of Revelation has already been, but will also repeat in a more ghastly manner at the end.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)