Author Topic: Believers need to be repenting to keep their salvation!  (Read 248 times)

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Offline Browner

Believers need to be repenting to keep their salvation!
« on: November 28, 2015, 11:17:31 PM »

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I find it interesting that the NT focuses much more on warning believers about the eternal
consequences of sinning ... than it does about the eternal consequences of not repenting!
To repent means to be truly sorry for having committed sins
... and to be really serious about not doing them in the future!

It all starts here: "John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying,
'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand! ... Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,
... every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire (see John 15).
... He (Jesus) will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn;
but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (Matthew 3:1-12)


Jesus warned: "... unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3 and 13:5)
"For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Matthew 9:13)
"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 4:17)


People will have to repent to get into the kingdom of God/heaven and heaven(*).

But, this is NOT a one-time repentance! ... What's the point of repenting once,
and then going back to commit more sins? ... That is totally ridiculous!
Paul was always warning believers in the churches that ...
Habitual unrepentant sinners could not inherit/enter the kingdom of God ...
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-6, Colossians 3:5-6, Revelation 21:7-8.
And he kept warning believers what they already knew: sin results in eternal death!

Warnings to believers in the churches: Repentance is necessary for salvation!

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness,
but is longsuffering toward US, not willing that any (of US) should perish
but that all (of US) should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

Is that little word "us" a misprint? ... Is Peter really writing to believers?
Yes, he is ... believers need to be confessing/repenting of their sins.

"For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it.
For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while.
... not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance.
For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted;
but the sorrow of the world produces death." (2 Corinthians 7:8-10)

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift,
and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and
the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance,
since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for
those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers,
it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8)

"Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing
up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane
person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward,
when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance,
though he sought it diligently with tears." (Hebrews 12:14-17)

"I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die,
for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how
you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch,
I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments;
and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy." (Revelation 3:1-4)

There were some worthy ones who had perfect works, and who didn't sin (defile their garments).

"So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out
of My mouth ... do you not know that you are (spiritually) wretched, miserable,
poor, blind, and naked ... As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.
Therefore be zealous and repent." (Revelation 3:16-19)


The solution for believers ...
"If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness (sins), we lie and do
not practice the truth. But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship
with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
IF we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us
from all unrighteousness
. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar,
and His word is not in us. My little children, these things I write to you, so that
you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous." (1 John 1:6--2:1)

(*) "many will ... sit down with Abraham-Isaac-Jacob in the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 8:11)
Both wheat and tares are in the kingdom of God, but only the wheat gets to go to heaven.


"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether
(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
... so now present your members as
slaves of righteousness for (leading to) holiness." (Romans 6:16-19)

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Offline francis drake

Re: Believers need to be repenting to keep their salvation!
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2015, 10:07:53 AM »
I find it interesting that the NT focuses much more on warning believers about the eternal
consequences of sinning ... than it does about the eternal consequences of not repenting!
To repent means to be truly sorry for having committed sins
... and to be really serious about not doing them in the future!
Repenting has nothing to do with being sorry.
The Greek word for "repent" as used repeatedly throughout the NT simply means to change direction, to turn around. Adding other meanings to the word just clouds the simplicity of the decision to seek God.
Quote
STRONG'S ONLINE CONCORDANCE.
metanoe?: to change one's mind or purpose
Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoe?
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.
HELPS Word-studies
3340 metano?ō (from 3326 /met?, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noi?ō, "think") ? properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards").

Quote
It all starts here: "John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying,
'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand! ... Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,
... every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire (see John 15).

John's demand that they bear fruits of repentance simply means that their lives should prove that there has been a change of heart.
Quote
... He (Jesus) will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn;
but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (Matthew 3:1-12)[/b]

Jesus warned: "... unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3 and 13:5)
"For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Matthew 9:13)
"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 4:17)


People will have to repent to get into the kingdom of God/heaven and heaven(*).
In the Luke13v3-5, Jesus is not talking about eternal life, but earthly life as the context clearly demonstrates.
Luke13v1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, ?Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them?do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
?
Can you see it there? The context is all about people who lost their physical lives to accident or the Roman army. In the near future Jerusalem was going to be destroyed by the Roman army with massive loss of life, their lives unless they repented!
All through the OT, salvation was never about "heaven when you're dead," but was always about deliverance from Philistine Famine and plague. As God of both Old and New Testaments, Jesus didn't change those parameters. Thus his warnings were seen correctly as warnings for their future safety.
Later on in his ministry, Jesus gives specific warning and specific instructions about how to escape when the Roman army starts moving. That is the prime biblical definition of Salvation!

Quote
But, this is NOT a one-time repentance! ... What's the point of repenting once,
and then going back to commit more sins? ... That is totally ridiculous!
Paul was always warning believers in the churches that ...
Habitual unrepentant sinners could not inherit/enter the kingdom of God ...
Jesus taught that the Kingdom of Heaven is nigh unto us. ie. The kingdom of heaven was in the here and now, not merely a place we go to after death!
Thus the command, "repent for the kingdom of heaven is nigh unto you" was about a change of mind or heart so that whilst still on earth you live from the kingdom of God, being directed by God himself rather than the god of this world.
Such life also has the added blessing that when your body dies, and gives up the ghost, that ghost or human spirit simply returns home to the Father of all spirits, in heaven!
Quote
1 Corinthians 6:9-10,

Again, this scripture is about this life not the afterlife.
1Cor6v9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with mena 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Paul was rebuking the Corinthian believers and pointing out that they could not live in immorality and also expect to live in the blessings of God's kingdom. That they were born again blood bought saints is clear from the following verses.
11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Of course, you could say that Paul is speaking in the past tense here, but lets read on.....
15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, ?The two will become one flesh.?
Even more disgraceful, (a good word to use here!) conduct, but look what he says next!
17But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
You mean they were still united with the Lord? Most certainly says Paul!
18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.
Ah, there we have it again, flee, flee, repent, repent!
19Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
Despite their vile behaviour, they were still bought and paid for sons and daughters of God, and their bodies were temples of the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately they were filling the temple with all sorts of other gods. Until they repented, they would never experience the earthly benefits of their kingdom of God inheritance.
Quote
Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-6, Colossians 3:5-6, Revelation 21:7-8.
And he kept warning believers what they already knew: sin results in eternal death!
Likewise, these references to Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, are all about believers producing fruits in this life. The Revelation quote is about the afterlife, and as expected there will be no immoral person there!
Quote
Warnings to believers in the churches: Repentance is necessary for salvation!
This is most certainly true, but you conflate the meanings of being "born again", and "salvation", when they are provably two different things.
It might help to look at the thread where this was discussed in considerable depth.

http://www.1faith.co.uk/safeplace-for-newbie-and-wannabie-christians/salvation-and-born-again-nonsense/


http://www.1faith.co.uk/safeplace-for-newbie-and-wannabie-christians/salvation-and-born-again-nonsense/
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Believers need to be repenting to keep their salvation!
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2015, 10:11:38 AM »
I find it interesting that the NT focuses much more on warning believers about the eternal
consequences of sinning ... than it does about the eternal consequences of not repenting!
To repent means to be truly sorry for having committed sins
... and to be really serious about not doing them in the future!

It all starts here: "John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying,
'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand! ... Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,
... every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire (see John 15).
... He (Jesus) will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn;
but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (Matthew 3:1-12)


Jesus warned: "... unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3 and 13:5)
"For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Matthew 9:13)
"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 4:17)


People will have to repent to get into the kingdom of God/heaven and heaven(*).

But, this is NOT a one-time repentance! ... What's the point of repenting once,
and then going back to commit more sins? ... That is totally ridiculous!
Paul was always warning believers in the churches that ...
Habitual unrepentant sinners could not inherit/enter the kingdom of God ...
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-6, Colossians 3:5-6, Revelation 21:7-8.
And he kept warning believers what they already knew: sin results in eternal death!

Warnings to believers in the churches: Repentance is necessary for salvation!

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness,
but is longsuffering toward US, not willing that any (of US) should perish
but that all (of US) should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

Is that little word "us" a misprint? ... Is Peter really writing to believers?
Yes, he is ... believers need to be confessing/repenting of their sins.

"For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it.
For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while.
... not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance.
For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted;
but the sorrow of the world produces death." (2 Corinthians 7:8-10)

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift,
and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and
the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance,
since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for
those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers,
it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8)

"Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing
up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane
person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward,
when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance,
though he sought it diligently with tears." (Hebrews 12:14-17)

"I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die,
for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how
you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch,
I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments;
and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy." (Revelation 3:1-4)

There were some worthy ones who had perfect works, and who didn't sin (defile their garments).

"So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out
of My mouth ... do you not know that you are (spiritually) wretched, miserable,
poor, blind, and naked ... As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.
Therefore be zealous and repent." (Revelation 3:16-19)


The solution for believers ...
"If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness (sins), we lie and do
not practice the truth. But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship
with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
IF we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us
from all unrighteousness
. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar,
and His word is not in us. My little children, these things I write to you, so that
you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous." (1 John 1:6--2:1)

(*) "many will ... sit down with Abraham-Isaac-Jacob in the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 8:11)
Both wheat and tares are in the kingdom of God, but only the wheat gets to go to heaven.

Browner, I really think you would help yourself and others if you reduced the size of your posts. I gave up after reading less than a third of this one.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Browner

Re: Believers need to be repenting to keep their salvation!
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2015, 03:23:35 PM »
Browner, I really think you would help yourself and others if you reduced the size of your posts.
I gave up after reading less than a third of this one.

The OP is about 80% Scripture.
So, are you saying that you don't wish to read and understand Scripture?

BTW, in the NT, "life" almost always refers to eternal life!
If you'd care to check Strongs and Vine, etc.
I believe it's #2222.

Even though I much prefer to listen to the Holy Spirit's explanations/teachings.

Jesus taught an obedience-holiness via discipleship gospel unto eternal life!
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether
(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
... so now present your members as
slaves of righteousness for (leading to) holiness." (Romans 6:16-19)

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Believers need to be repenting to keep their salvation!
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2015, 03:27:23 PM »
That is not what Francis said and you know it Browner.

The manner in which you dissect and present Scripture leaves a lot to be desired at the best of times.
 
It is like you are trying to confound people by volume and splicing together of Scriptures the way you do, into just giving up and accepting what you say without raising objection or bringing to you another POV.

People won't be dictated to in such a way, its that simple. 
You present your understanding, others present theirs. 
Yours is not above others and vice versa.  Lest reasoning be left at the door.

Offline Browner

Re: Believers need to be repenting to keep their salvation!
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2015, 03:32:21 PM »
That is not what Francis said and you know it Browner.

He said I presented too much Scripture volume to present my case.
"Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether
(slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or
(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?
... so now present your members as
slaves of righteousness for (leading to) holiness." (Romans 6:16-19)

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Believers need to be repenting to keep their salvation!
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2015, 03:43:30 PM »
And you have completely changed your previous post from what I replied to, again as you know it Browner.

However, whether you have cleverly done that or 'inadvertently' done that, is irrelevant to me, as my post still stands.

Quote
The manner in which you dissect and present Scripture leaves a lot to be desired at the best of times.
 
It is like you are trying to confound people by volume and splicing together of Scriptures the way you do, into just giving up and accepting what you say without raising objection or bringing to you another POV.

People won't be dictated to in such a way, its that simple. 
You present your understanding, others present theirs. 
Yours is not above others and vice versa.  Lest reasoning be left at the door
.

Offline francis drake

Re: Believers need to be repenting to keep their salvation!
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2015, 03:56:17 PM »
He said I presented too much Scripture volume to present my case.

Now now Browner, I never mentioned the word "scripture". Not only do you add words to the scriptures you quote, you now also add words to my quotes! Lol

In the witness box, any sworn testimony given by someone with your demonstrable track record would be laughed out of court!

Here are my exact words, pasted and unedited.
Quote
Browner, I really think you would help yourself and others if you reduced the size of your posts. I gave up after reading less than a third of this one. -

I apologise if that (or this) comment seemed offensive to you, but it was simply meant to help get your posts read!
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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