Author Topic: The Jesus Effect  (Read 1330 times)

Description: A revelation that ties together a great deal of scripture: what say ye?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tribalchristian

Re: The Jesus Effect
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2016, 06:38:20 PM »

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
Hi David,

Of course God is everywhere present.  However, if that is true and if that is all we need... why did God appear at different times as the burning bush, the pillar of fire and smoke, the Angel of the Lord, or in these last days, in His Son Jesus Christ?  The scriptures say that Jesus healed all that came to him.  In fact, there was only one place where he did not perform many miracles because of unbelief.  The point I was trying to make is that, in the presence of Jesus, when you are around Him, our broken creation comes back into alignment with the perfection of Eden. God in Christ makes all things new. For example, leprosy had to be healed when Jesus put forth his hand because the results of sin and corruption could not exist in His presence. 

What I have come to know, through experience, is that no one can be taught into the kingdom of heaven.  We have to meet our savior  personally and we must give ourselves to him by faith even though there is no earthly reason to believe that a man who died 2000 years ago could save our souls.  We say yes by God's grace and revelation.  It is the illumination of His Spirit that even allows us to understand anything in Him. 

In the presence of God sin cannot stand and so it naturally flees because darkness cannot exist in the light.  So many are very far from God and they struggle with sin and sickness, depression and hopelessness, and they cannot find freedom from these things.  This is simply a function of being far from His presence.  If we were near Him none of those sorts of things could continue to exist. 

During the Great White Throne judgment the time to repent for our sins is over.  It is a court of judgement and not a time of personal fellowship.  That time is passed.  In our age of grace, while we can yet come before God because of the blood of Jesus Christ shed for our sins, we can experience the presence of God, His glory, and in that glory I am saying that all the things that our not of Him must go.

What passes for Christianity. for some, is a shadow of a shadow of what the real presence of God is like.  The first century church experienced the Holy Spirit in ways that everyone agrees is God but so many never come to know.  Funny thing is that the day of Pentecost was the "beginning" of the church and things were supposed to progress upwards from there (not downwards.)  There is so much more available in God than we normally have.  The main thing that is holding us back is that many have not yet learned how to listen to the voice of our Father and trust Him to lead and guide them on a daily basis.  Our "correct" theology often times prevents us from simply obeying the Holy Spirit.  We will not listen because what our Father says does not make sense to our natural minds and what we cannot understand we simply will not do. 

We know too much and do too little.  A new babe in Christ who knows hardly anything at all but will "do" the will of God exactly as He says to do it when He says to do it is better than a mature Christian who will not obey His voice because it goes against "sound doctrine."  Whatever happened to God being sovereign in our lives?  Have we become pharisees that know so much about God that we fail to recognize God?  If Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath is He not Lord of everything else in our lives too...including our understanding?  Here is a truth,


"Comparatively speaking, where we are now in our doctrinal understanding of scripture is so far below what true revelation in His Spirit is, that it is not worth to be compared."


As a Child, Jesus did not confound the Pharisees because he was learned.  Jesus was able to speak truths that amazed the masters of the law because he knew the law giver personally.  The truth is, that some believe that our understanding of God is pretty well complete when, in reality, we have barely scratched the surface of the vast ocean of God that stands before us.

I am not particularly directing these statements to you...I am just writing what I feel on my heart in general.  So please do not take offense.

God bless,

Michael 
"Listen, Hear, and Obey On Time"

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Offline Seeker

Re: The Jesus Effect
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2016, 07:12:49 PM »
I think there is a difference between being the temple of the Holy Spirit and recognising the Holy Spirit inside your temple.  As in, not everyone is even in tune with their spirit and how it reacts in the presence of the Holy Spirit, with this in mind, something can be so close yet because you are not looking for or at it through the 'right set of eyes' to recognise what it is your looking at or in this instance, in the presence of.

I mentioned on the Emmaus Walk thread that the disciples even though at the time Jesus was in their presence, and even though their spirits reacted to the presence of Jesus and the Truth of the Scriptures He was explaining, it wasn't until afterwards on looking back they even took note of their own spirits reaction to Jesus and the Truth He was speaking.

Or why does Scripture advise you to fan the flame of your faith 2Tim1:6

Now you've brought something else up :D 2Tim 1:6 says 'For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands, '

So the laying on of hands is necessary?

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: The Jesus Effect
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2016, 07:20:25 PM »
Nope, I can testify to that :D

Offline francis drake

Re: The Jesus Effect
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2016, 09:23:33 PM »
Now you've brought something else up :D 2Tim 1:6 says 'For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands, '

So the laying on of hands is necessary?

When Paul was with Timothy, he obviously laid hands on him to receive some gift. Here Paul is merely reminding Timothy not to let it go fallow, ie. unused. It is our duty to walk in the gifts that God gives us.
It is true that gifts of the spirit can be imparted from one to another by laying on of hands, but we can also ask God directly for gifts. Either way, it is still down to us to mature those gifts by practise.
Unfortunately, few churches allow time or space for such things to happen.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

Re: The Jesus Effect
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2016, 04:22:57 PM »
Hi Michael
I'm not at all offended by what you wrote I find your posts Thought provoking is that not what this forum is about to provoke us to think about the scriptures I may not agree with everything you say but I do see there is a lot of love behind what you say.
Quote
you said
 Hi David,

Of course God is everywhere present.  However, if that is true and if that is all we need... why did God appear at different times as the burning bush, the pillar of fire and smoke, the Angel of the Lord, or in these last days, in His Son Jesus Christ?  The scriptures say that Jesus healed all that came to him.  In fact, there was only one place where he did not perform many miracles because of unbelief.  The point I was trying to make is that, in the presence of Jesus, when you are around Him, our broken creation comes back into alignment with the perfection of Eden. God in Christ makes all things new. For example, leprosy had to be healed when Jesus put forth his hand because the results of sin and corruption could not exist in His presence. 
- See more at: http://www.1faith.co.uk/raise-a-debate/the-jesus-effect/8/#sthash.CGadGNA1.dpuf   

God appeared to all those people in the OT because he chose them to do his will to further his plan of creation the end of which is man in Gods image which is Christ when he is united with his bride.

Would you say St Paul was in the presence of Christ when he asked him to remove the thorn in his side ( I have wondered was it bad eyesight because he wrote in such big letters jest a thought)  Why did not Paul cure Timothy's bad stomach but told him to drink wine

 Joh 9:3  Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Joh 9:5  As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

It seams that from the first verse here would indicate Christ's  healing was to show the works of God to show who he was.
Dose verse two tell us why Paul and Timothy did not get healed because it was after pentecost.
being as Christ has ascended into heaven how can we be in his presence.

Love and Peace
David     

http://www.1faith.co.uk/raise-a-debate/the-jesus-effect/8/#sthash.CGadGNA1.dpuf

Offline tribalchristian

Re: The Jesus Effect
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2016, 11:27:29 PM »
Hi David,

I suppose I should define presence.  Seems like your are pointing out times where people may have been in God's presence yet they were not healed. 

If you think about being in the presence of God as a scale from one to ten, ten being with God like Jesus was, and zero being cast into outer darkness, I am saying that the closer we get to a "ten" the less the effects of sin can exist.  For instance, when Moses saw only the hinder parts of God his face shown and he lived to be 120 years old and his natural strength was not diminished.  Had he not struck the rock twice there is no telling how many years he would have lived.  This is the type of presence I am talking about. 

You speak about Paul.  Christ had already mentioned that He would show Paul how many things he would have to suffer for his name sake.  So that fact that God would not heal his affliction could have something do with that.

Perhaps you could clarify what you are getting at.  I am not quite understanding your drift.  It almost seems like  what you say is an apologetic supporting why we suffer even in His presence.  Perhaps I am missing something and you can clarify. 

What I am saying, to reiterate, is that where the presence of God is everything to do with corruption simply dissolves.  For instance, when the shadow of Peter would fall on someone who lay sick they would instantly be healed.  That has nothing to do with Peter but rather it had to do with the same sort of "hinder parts" of God that Moses experienced.  Furthermore, I am saying, that this kind of Shekinah glory can be experienced when a body of believers unite and become one with God.

I might add, so that you and others may understand, that a lot of things I write about are just on the periphery of my spiritual vision and understanding.  It is like I am stretching as far as I possible to lay hold of  revelations that are barely within my grasp.  I do not know why this is with me but that is how I am led. I see things in broad strokes and that is why, some of the time,  what I say is somewhat indistinct.  In fact,  I welcome the day when others, who are better at the nitty gritty of scripture, fine tune the ideas I present.

God bless,

Michael
"Listen, Hear, and Obey On Time"

TJ

  • Guest
Re: The Jesus Effect
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2016, 12:46:23 AM »
Quote
Quote
I might add, so that you and others may understand, that a lot of things I write about are just on the periphery of my spiritual vision and understanding.  It is like I am stretching as far as I possible to lay hold of  revelations that are barely within my grasp.

Progressive revelation...

that is why I am always falling over and getting up again   :D

Offline davetaff

Re: The Jesus Effect
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2016, 05:23:33 PM »
Hi Michael
Sorry you don't understand me most probably due to my lack of education to give you some idea you use the word apologetic I would not know what an  apologetic was if jumped up and bit me.

I believe that everything anyone says has to be backed up by scripture scripture always has the last word in my opinion you say we should strive to be in the presence of Christ and rightly so but this will not happen till the rapture when Christ come's for those who are his.
scripture teaches us that Christ sits at the right hand of God in Heaven or are you saying he comes down to be with certain privileged individuals yes we have the holy spirit which God gives is it that what you mean by presence

Love and Peace
Dave 

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !