Author Topic: Holy Ghost.  (Read 1278 times)

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Offline Deborah

Re: Holy Ghost.
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2015, 05:14:53 PM »

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Hi Dave

The gift of tongues means that you speak (for a short time) in a language you have never learned and don't understand.
It MAY be a language that someone who hears you can understand - as was the case on the Day of Pentecost (and sometimes happens today). But usually it is language that nobody understands, so you also need the spiritual gift of interpretation to 'translate' it.

The gift is also given to people praying alone, enabling them to pray to God directly spirit-to-spirit. A lot of us find this helpful, especially if we aren't naturally eloquent or talkative. So there is a purpose to it, even if you don't understand what you're saying.
"My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me." (John 10:27)

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Re: Holy Ghost.
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2015, 07:05:03 PM »
Ahh thought I had seen this before, not sure you realise, but you have duplicated your post here J4M, you also started it on Nov 2....here is your thread there, which goes into details of speaking in tongues, to save people repeating that:  http://www.1faith.co.uk/raise-a-debate/holy-ghost/

I will merge the topics for you  :D
http://www.1faith.co.uk/raise-a-debate/holy-ghost/

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Holy Ghost.
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2015, 07:10:00 PM »
Hi Dave

The gift of tongues means that you speak (for a short time) in a language you have never learned and don't understand.
It MAY be a language that someone who hears you can understand - as was the case on the Day of Pentecost (and sometimes happens today). But usually it is language that nobody understands, so you also need the spiritual gift of interpretation to 'translate' it.

The gift is also given to people praying alone, enabling them to pray to God directly spirit-to-spirit. A lot of us find this helpful, especially if we aren't naturally eloquent or talkative. So there is a purpose to it, even if you don't understand what you're saying.



You are so right.
Teaching God's liberating truth

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Holy Ghost.
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2015, 09:41:42 PM »
Yes. And yes.

But the gift of tongues is not given to everyone (I Corinthians 12:30)



Please note, The gift of tongues in 1 Cor 12: 10, are just that, [One of the gifts], and this is just one of the eight operations of tongues that are recorded in the Bible.
Please note, These tongues are for an interpretation, V 10 & v 30.  And are different to those in Acts 2: 4--11.
Jesus said the believer, [Every believer] can and should speak in tongues.
Teaching God's liberating truth

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Holy Ghost.
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2015, 09:45:25 PM »
Mark 16:17,18 doesn't mean that every single believer will speak in tongues, but that the church (as a whole) will include people who speak in tongues. Not every single believer will drive out demons, pick up snakes or drink deadly poison either - but some certainly will.


You are right, The tongues in Mk 16: 17, aren't for every Christian, Because Jesus said it's for those who believe, and not every Christian believes in speaking in tongues.
Teaching God's liberating truth

Offline Deborah

Re: Holy Ghost.
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2015, 07:20:39 AM »

You are right, The tongues in Mk 16: 17, aren't for every Christian, Because Jesus said it's for those who believe, and not every Christian believes in speaking in tongues.

But that's not what I meant. It isn't what Jesus meant either. "Those who believe" is a standard New Testament way of saying "Christians". These signs (not just tongues) will accompany Christians (in general), not "all Christians who believe in tongues".
"My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me." (John 10:27)

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Holy Ghost.
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2015, 09:53:43 AM »
But that's not what I meant. It isn't what Jesus meant either. "Those who believe" is a standard New Testament way of saying "Christians". These signs (not just tongues) will accompany Christians (in general), not "all Christians who believe in tongues".



We have to  go  by what Jesus said, AND by what  He DIDN'T  say.
We can tell what God said, by what He doesn't say, just as much as what He does say.

Notice  what Jesus  DIDN'T  say,
(Some shall cast out devils, some shall speak  in tongues). .and so on.
No ,  He said,  them that believe.
Jesus ISN'T  in the business of  deceiving  us.

Plus in every Biblical account of  people  being  baptised  in the Holy Ghost,  they spoke in tongues .

There are five Biblical accounts of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, and every time, they spoke in tongues.

[1]Acts 2: 4--11.

[2]Acts 8: 17--21, What did Simon see??. The meaning for the word, "Matter", in v21, Is " Languages, dialect and Tongues",
they had the same experience as those in Acts 2: 4--11.

[3]Acts 9: 17, Paul spoke in tongues, 1 Cor 14: 18.

[4]Acts 10: 44--46.

All these were filled with the Holy Ghost AND SPOKE IN TONGUES, Making tongues the Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost.
Plus, Why would God have a set of rules for the early Church, then change His MO for the latter Church?.
Teaching God's liberating truth

Offline Deborah

Re: Holy Ghost.
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2015, 11:04:16 AM »


We have to  go  by what Jesus said, AND by what  He DIDN'T  say.
We can tell what God said, by what He doesn't say, just as much as what He does say.

Notice  what Jesus  DIDN'T  say,
(Some shall cast out devils, some shall speak  in tongues). .and so on.
No ,  He said,  them that believe.
Jesus ISN'T  in the business of  deceiving  us.

Be careful, though, not to read into the text something that isn't actually there. OK, Jesus did't say 'some'. But He didn't say 'all' either!
If you say that all true Christians speak in tongues, then you must apply the same reasoning to all the other phenomena in that list. All Christians must exorcise demons, pick up snakes and heal the sick. Do you think Jesus meant that? Do you do all those things?

And since Scripture interprets Scripture, we must look elsewhere in the NT. In I Corinthians 12:29, Paul asks, "Do all speak in tongues?" And in the Greek, the question is worded in such a way that it implies the answer 'No'. Even in the Corinthian church, which was ultra-enthusiastic about tongues, not all the members received that gift.

Quote
Plus in every Biblical account of  people  being  baptised  in the Holy Ghost,  they spoke in tongues .

There are five Biblical accounts of people being baptised in the Holy Ghost, and every time, they spoke in tongues.

[1]Acts 2: 4--11.

[2]Acts 8: 17--21, What did Simon see??. The meaning for the word, "Matter", in v21, Is " Languages, dialect and Tongues",
they had the same experience as those in Acts 2: 4--11.

[3]Acts 9: 17, Paul spoke in tongues, 1 Cor 14: 18.

[4]Acts 10: 44--46.

All these were filled with the Holy Ghost AND SPOKE IN TONGUES, Making tongues the Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost.
Again, take care... Acts is a very selective account of the early church, and like all narratives it focuses on the 'exciting' bits. Many many times Luke tells us that people 'believed' without mentioning tongues. Were they not baptised with the Spirit? He does not mention tongues in Corinth, for example.

Quote
Plus, Why would God have a set of rules for the early Church, then change His MO for the latter Church?.
Good point. So if not all Christians (even the baptised-in-the-Spirit ones) speak in tongues now, what makes you think they did then?
"My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me." (John 10:27)

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