Author Topic: Smartly dressed or not.  (Read 1867 times)

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Offline Seeker

Re: Smartly dressed or not.
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2015, 09:55:06 AM »

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The word  I see here in this topic is  "Image"

The world is obsessed with image as well

Trouble is that image is very hard to sustain and is only face value

Creating an image   [idol]   is seen every day in the political world and it causes people to try to "cover up"  to continue the "image"

In the Christian world we see the same "image" where a leader has to be seen as "perfect" with a "perfect family"

Trouble is people are not perfect and neither are families

This again causes people and groups of people to  "cover up " things

Image projects something that is false and takes us away from reality Revelation 13:15;

The real  Jesus did not project an image - people followed Him because He was simply "Who He was"

When someone is at the front of the church preaching and they 'seem' perfect - I find it hard to relate to them; because I am not perfect. However if they admit to faults, to struggling - I warm to them, the reason being I can now relate. I struggle, I have faults, I am not perfect. So to have a leader tell me the truth, that it isn't always easy is something I can relate to. Knowing that others struggle and yet still persist, still cling to God, still continue helps me personally. Don't get me wrong - I don't like all 'doom and gloom' either, just a balanced approach and if someone is more interested in maintaining an image/appearing perfect then how can I relate? unless that is something that is important to me, then surely I would just be learning how to create and maintain an image.

I think it is easy to fall into though, because obviously I don't want to intentionally offend people, so maybe I do moderate/censor myself to some extent? I know I have been too blunt previously, so I try to be more diplomatic - but is that also image? I see some fine, blurry lines - I am pondering though :D

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Offline Jesus4me

Re: Smartly dressed or not.
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2015, 10:25:52 AM »
When someone is at the front of the church preaching and they 'seem' perfect - I find it hard to relate to them; because I am not perfect. However if they admit to faults, to struggling - I warm to them, the reason being I can now relate. I struggle, I have faults, I am not perfect. So to have a leader tell me the truth, that it isn't always easy is something I can relate to. Knowing that others struggle and yet still persist, still cling to God, still continue helps me personally. Don't get me wrong - I don't like all 'doom and gloom' either, just a balanced approach and if someone is more interested in maintaining an image/appearing perfect then how can I relate? unless that is something that is important to me, then surely I would just be learning how to create and maintain an image.

I think it is easy to fall into though, because obviously I don't want to intentionally offend people, so maybe I do moderate/censor myself to some extent? I know I have been too blunt previously, so I try to be more diplomatic - but is that also image? I see some fine, blurry lines - I am pondering though :D



It's not a case of maintaining an image, It's a case of honouring God.
Teaching God's liberating truth

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Smartly dressed or not.
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2015, 01:08:50 PM »
Quote
Quote
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:18

This is the point though Jesus4me.

I gave you a made up scenario at the beginning of this thread where God could work in direct opposition to your mindset. 

Other members have provided scriptural reasonings.

Another member has, through difficulty I might add, given some of their heart, or opened it up, to try and show again a different perspective to your mindset.

You still insist on the approach of its your way or the highway, even though people have given some of themselves to show you a different POV.  THIS cannot and will not be trampled on by anyone, let alone someone who is a self professed Minister.  I am more surprised and saddened at the lack of compassion and understanding in this respect.

For this reason, I am going to lock this thread temporarily for 24hours, to give time for reflection and seeking the Lord instead of self and pride on the subject for all of us.  So hopefully when it is reopened, if people still reply, it will be more a reasonable response than a reaction.  We are to reason with one another.

I hope as a Minister you can appreciate this stance at least.

Be blessed AND be a blessing always.

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Smartly dressed or not.
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2015, 01:50:37 PM »
Topic unlocked.  Lets remember we are to 'reason' together.

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Smartly dressed or not.
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2015, 05:34:43 PM »


This is the point though Jesus4me.

I gave you a made up scenario at the beginning of this thread where God could work in direct opposition to your mindset. 

Other members have provided scriptural reasonings.

Another member has, through difficulty I might add, given some of their heart, or opened it up, to try and show again a different perspective to your mindset.

You still insist on the approach of its your way or the highway, even though people have given some of themselves to show you a different POV.  THIS cannot and will not be trampled on by anyone, let alone someone who is a self professed Minister.  I am more surprised and saddened at the lack of compassion and understanding in this respect.

For this reason, I am going to lock this thread temporarily for 24hours, to give time for reflection and seeking the Lord instead of self and pride on the subject for all of us.  So hopefully when it is reopened, if people still reply, it will be more a reasonable response than a reaction.  We are to reason with one another.

I hope as a Minister you can appreciate this stance at least.

Be blessed AND be a blessing always.



It's not a case of what God or can't do, It's a matter of honouring God in the way we dress.
If God can use scruffy ministers who have no respect for God, their ministry and the people they minister to, Then God can use anyone.
There's a scruffy epidemic flooding through the Church, By Ministers who have no respect at all, They are an offence to God, the body of Christ and to other people.
The Bible says we shouldn't do anything that might offend people. If these scruffy ministers ever stop and thing about are they offending people the way I dress, Then they would know how wrong it is to dress scruffy.
I have said this before, But it needs saying again, You watch those people if they met the Queen, a King or someone important, or go to an important work meeting or whatever, They will dress smart, because of respect for them.
But when it comes to a Church meeting, their attitude is, [Oh, It's only God], They have no respect for God, They will tell you that they do respect God, But the fact that they don't bother to get smartened up to minister, tells a different story.
Teaching God's liberating truth

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Smartly dressed or not.
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2015, 06:02:50 PM »
Quote
If God can use scruffy ministers who have no respect for God, their ministry and the people they minister to, Then God can use anyone.

You got it in this line the entirety of what I am saying.  God CAN use anyone this is the thing.  God did with me.

You are talking with someone who has the God given conviction, that He can use anyone.....anything......anytime.....anywhere.....anyhow.....for HIS eternal Good and Purposes. 

Lets put that conviction into your scruffy Pastor scenario.

Anything....Pain the person is suffering, to draw the person
Anytime.....service
Anywhere...church
Anyhow.....wearing scruffy clothes to help demolish walls and barriers regarding persons self image
Anyone.....Pastor who is tuned in with God and listens to what he should be doing that day for God's Good and Purposes.

Which is why, I remove from my eyes, heart etc..the viewpoint and assumption that 100% of the time, a scruffy pastor has no respect for God, its just too big an assumption for me to take on board.  I know I have a conviction from the Lord in this area which is why this viewpoint wouldn't change.  This is not to say I am equally not open to learning.  Gods word stands, mans never does really.  This is probably why discernment is a really important thing to have, because then you will know when the Spirit of God testifies to your own spirit in an area.  God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, therefore His word is the same. 

Its that much of a none issue for me, I don't even think of these kind of scenarios in the first place for it to be a problem.

I think God can handle any offence done towards him without the need for man to intervene, He bigger than me, that is my God.  I really don't need to step in in His own defence that way.  Do you not think God can deal with offence?

But if you do want to be bothered about offence and about what attire people wear...I would suggest that maybe God could be more offended by the flash white suit wearing, gold blinging, flash houses and cars ministers than the scruffy pastors.  How are they any different to those in the temple when Jesus upturned their tables.


You say that the Bible says we are not to offend people, then please do tell me....why do the above people find it acceptable to offend me with this approach to Ministry?  charging money for books and the like for the FREE wisdom from God? this I can quite imagine offends God...someone spinning money off something HE has given free.

Maybe they wear scruffy clothes to church because they know the people walking through their doors are going to be scruffy and desolate with nothing...the heart is seen there more. 

Offline Carpenters Son.

Re: Smartly dressed or not.
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2015, 06:53:29 PM »
If Jesus returns now this sunday during church, will he chose the ones in the best clothes? Some He takes will be smartly dressed and others will not be. Some will have new clothes and others will be in quite old clothes. Some will be rich and some will be poor. All these are meaningless regarding ones salvation. What sort of clothes do we need? Will He not give us white robes? No clothes we have here on earth match the clothes He gives us in Heaven. I've seen them. They shine with His splendour. They are spotless! Do not worry about clothes. What we wear. (Jesus tells us to consider the lillies of the field. How not even Solomon in all his glory was dressed like one of these!)
So what I will point out is to do what you think is right, and more importantly, not to judge someone with fine clothes or someone with ragged clothes. Why? Because by doing so, sin is at your heart. This is what needs teaching in churches today. Gods Word. Do not judge lest ye be judged. (In writing this I am also preaching to myself!) 

Offline francis drake

Re: Smartly dressed or not.
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2015, 09:25:51 PM »


It's not a case of what God or can't do, It's a matter of honouring God in the way we dress.
If God can use scruffy ministers who have no respect for God, their ministry and the people they minister to, Then God can use anyone.
There's a scruffy epidemic flooding through the Church, By Ministers who have no respect at all, They are an offence to God, the body of Christ and to other people.
The Bible says we shouldn't do anything that might offend people. If these scruffy ministers ever stop and thing about are they offending people the way I dress, Then they would know how wrong it is to dress scruffy.
I have said this before, But it needs saying again, You watch those people if they met the Queen, a King or someone important, or go to an important work meeting or whatever, They will dress smart, because of respect for them.
But when it comes to a Church meeting, their attitude is, [Oh, It's only God], They have no respect for God, They will tell you that they do respect God, But the fact that they don't bother to get smartened up to minister, tells a different story.

Matt11v7As John?s disciples were leaving, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: ?What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed swayed by the wind? 8If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings? palaces. 9Then what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet.

Your attitude is precisely like the Pharisees who judged John the Baptist because his dress code was a filthy mess. To understand what the Father thinks about outward dress, that's made crystal clear here by Jesus, who only did what he saw his Father doing.
Its a pity J4M that you can't see and do the same as Jesus when it comes to outward appearances.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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