Author Topic: Spirit of God  (Read 1960 times)

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TJ

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Re: Spirit of God
« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2016, 12:13:42 AM »
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The concept of leader as paraded by the church is not in scripture, nor is the notion of leading an assembly of the ekklesia from the front found in scripture

Were their no leaders in  scripture   ?

See   http://www.1faith.co.uk/safeplace-for-newbie-and-wannabie-christians/%28faith-q%29you-shall-not-murder/msg57169/#msg57169


I think you are grasping onto straws here @francis drake   :D




http://www.1faith.co.uk/safeplace-for-newbie-and-wannabie-christians/%28faith-q%29you-shall-not-murder/msg57169/#msg57169

Offline francis drake

Re: Spirit of God
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2016, 06:58:10 AM »


Were their no leaders in  scripture   ?

See   http://www.1faith.co.uk/safeplace-for-newbie-and-wannabie-christians/%28faith-q%29you-shall-not-murder/msg57169/#msg57169


I think you are grasping onto straws here @francis drake   :D

I said leader "as paraded by the church!"
ie. Being enthroned, in command, where people have to ask his permission.

Matt20v20Then the mother of Zebedee?s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him.

21?What is it you want?? he asked.

She said, ?Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom.?

22?You don?t know what you are asking,? Jesus said to them. ?Can you drink the cup I am going to drink??

?We can,? they answered.

23Jesus said to them, ?You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.?

24When the ten heard about this, they were indignant with the two brothers. 25Jesus called them together and said, ?You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
26It shall not be so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27and whoever wants to be first must be your slave? 28just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.?


James and John were ambitious. With mum they came quietly to Jesus asking for thrones next to his when he came in to his kingdom.
Despite Jesus making it abundantly clear that this was utterly wrong, ie. It shall not be so among you, that's exactly where church leadership sits today. In command, sitting over their "flock". Their members having to seek his permission before doing anything in his church service.
The body is not free, it is bound by hierarchical law.

The leaders claim to be servants, but they are rulers.
http://www.1faith.co.uk/safeplace-for-newbie-and-wannabie-christians/%28faith-q%29you-shall-not-murder/msg57169/#msg57169
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Serenity

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Re: Spirit of God
« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2016, 11:20:15 AM »
In many cases I think francis is right.  Going off experience and more recently this week. 
No straws about, but if this is what people experience, how can you say they are wrong in thinking the hierarchy the way they are set up and run is wrong? 

TJ

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Re: Spirit of God
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2016, 12:57:42 PM »
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how can you say they are wrong in thinking the hierarchy the way they are set up and run is wrong?


I did not say they are wrong and I do not think the way some are setup are right.

I'm talking about scripture and the way the early Church was setup before all this.

Nothing to do with some of todays - goings on

Under the context of " The Church and Its Leaders"     1 Corinthians 3  explains that the Church at that time clearly had leaders



TJ

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Re: Spirit of God
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2016, 01:01:51 PM »
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The concept of leader as paraded by the church is not in scripture, nor is the notion of leading an assembly of the ekklesia from the front found in scripture.

This is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders!



Online John

Re: Spirit of God
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2016, 03:45:45 PM »
When one compares the detailed instruction in the OT for how the israelites were to worship with the few instructions in the NT. One sees something of how radicle God is about our worship of him.
Add into the mix the facts that God has used highly structured churches in revival ( or at least those in that organisation who are willing ) as well as the unstructured church.
But in every church there is someone to whom all problems, all disissions, all responcibility ends with. The buck stops with someone.

What I wonder about is how is heaven organised? Will there be districts for the CoE, Baptists etc or will it be arranged according to faith ie. tjhose with great faith are in circle no xxx, those with little faith in circle xxxxx, or will there be a free for all, which as there is no night is a bit rough for us late comers.

How do you think heaven is organised? Will there be any bishops?

Serenity

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Re: Spirit of God
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2016, 04:23:48 PM »
lol heaven organised, do you think there will be a need for organisation in heaven, where people will be in full presence and revelation of God? it is when people are not, you end up with all these divisions you are listing.

Online John

Re: Spirit of God
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2016, 08:16:44 PM »
Yes we will be perfect there in heaven, but we will still be individuals and will need marshalling into our places to jointhat unnumberable crowd worshipping God.

Jesus appeared and disappeared in his resurection appearances. Maybe that is how we'll get to our appointed place? Only hope thaere is a practise ground and a trainer!