Spirit of God

[TJ]

Haha.
Its not about bad experiences John. Its about understanding from scripture and from the Holy Spirit that the hierarchical system of church is rooted in the deception and not God.

So God if God chose leaders to teach and the empowered Church then chose deacons to serve the widows and orphans ...were did they deception come in do you think ?

It is all in scripture introducing the early days of the Church

[TJ]

Do you think the deception came in while the scriptures were being written or later on

[TJ]

Most would read scripture [inspired word of God] as being the footprint for the Church setup - so maybe scripture went wrong |?


sorry for picking on you franicis at this time but I am looking for answers  [I hate bullying or any kind of abuse -inside or outside a Church setup]

as bullying is more prevalent outside.

thankyou for your perseverance with me

[Seeker]

Most would read scripture [inspired word of God] as being the footprint for the Church setup - so maybe scripture went wrong |?


sorry for picking on you franicis at this time but I am looking for answers  [I hate bullying or any kind of abuse -inside or outside a Church setup]

as bullying is more prevalent outside.

thankyou for your perseverance with me

Now I am curious, are you saying there is more bullying outside the church than inside the church?

I have seen and definitely heard of abuse and bullying within churches and there is no doubt such goes on outside the church, but I had never thought about is it more prevalent outside the church or not?

[TJ]

Well at school for instance

[TJ]

Most would read scripture [inspired word of God] as being the footprint for the Church setup - so maybe scripture went wrong |?

TJ

God's Grace comes before God's word....as God spoke earlier @ church  through the speaker

John 1:17 KJB For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.



It was also said that there are twice as many de Church [people who did go]  as there are Church people - anyway it spoke to me

[All too often scripture is used without the Word - the bible to condemn - [MY OWN WORDS]


answering myself now [sign of getting old]

[Seeker]

answering myself now [sign of getting old]

I've been talking to myself for years . Not sure what that's a sign of. Not sure I want to know the answer to that one  . I do find it helps me to keep on task, remind myself of what I am doing though, my mind tends to wander.

[francis drake]

So God if God chose leaders to teach and the empowered Church then chose deacons to serve the widows and orphans ...were did they deception come in do you think ?

The concept of leader as paraded by the church is not in scripture, nor is the notion of leading an assembly of the ekklesia from the front found in scripture.

It is all in scripture introducing the early days of the Church

No its not TJ. Its roots are traditions of man.

Eph4v11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Take note, God didn't just give pastors. Nor does it indicate that pastors stand at the front and conduct the service. Nor does it indicate that a church has only one pastor. The same is true for the other ministries a church is supposed to have in its midst, which the ascendency and control of the pastor has crushed.

A healthy church should have multiple pastors because his purpose is not to be in charge of the service. And for that matter, what's a "service", is that when they check the oil and brakes on my car?
A healthy church should have multiple apostles prophets pastors evangelists and teachers.

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Would you look at that! The job of the pastor etc. is the perfection of the saints for the work of the ministry!
ie. its the saints who should be doing the ministry.

If a pastor is standing year in year out preaching to the same sleepy bunch, year in year out, then he has evidently failed. If the congregation are still suckling at the tit of the pastor rather than chewing meat like adults, then they obviously have not been perfected, nor are they capable of ministering to anyone.

It is the Holy Spirit that is supposed to lead the assembly, working through the gifts of the spirit not a programme. It is the whole congregation that ministers the gifts of the spirit, one to another, not just the leader/s.
 ie. the gathering of the saints is a grass roots ministry, not a top down ministry.