Spirit of God

[francis drake]

So we are nolonger to preach the gospel or seek to talk to people about Jesus.
If that is false evangelism, please explain what true evangelism is?

False evangelism is thinking that the purpose of spreading the gospel is to get people born again so they get to heaven when they are dead.

The very fact that a babe in the womb can be born again without evangelism should tell us that new birth is an action of the Holy Spirit working on the human spirit. That's why Paul says in Romans that they are without excuse.

True evangelism is about discipling those who are already born again into living by the spirit and into doing the work of God on earth. And that means a whole load more than joining a church and becoming a clone.

[Serenity]

A lesson I have learnt the hard way with 'churches' these last few days over my mum...

A worldly church cannot affect the world ... because the world has affected the church.

Your evangelism should not include watered down, lukewarm approaches to be the current politically correct place to be.  What is the current fad? oh don't worry we are okay with that even if God isn't...this is not evangelism, its not even love.  It is trying to be fishers of men giving a false representation of God.  Do not falsely represent God in your evangelism is the way to go.

You know, the 'church' put their doctrine before the needs of a members spirit with my mum. 

They chose to follow the rules and not the Spirit and what was right in the Spirit AND Bible.

Because a 'Deacon' in the church is not allowed to anoint someone with oil, only a Priest can...who was not available for my mum, they chose to stick with the rule, and refused to not only do the anointing but even tell me what kind of oil they used.

However, I would never allow my mum to be at detriment in such things, so relentlessly persevered, got some oil which was blessed at renewal camp, and did the job myself along with my brother who also did it.  The 'church' forced me into a corner where effectively we had to do the priest's job.  Whatever, to some this is wrong, however to us and to my mum, and in the spirit it was right. 

This is being a Spirit led and not a doctrine led Christian...and yes I told the Deacon, that see why I believe it is better to be a Spirit led Christian and not a Doctrine led one...because now in him being a rule, doctrine of man led one...the church has failed my mum.  He said its okay he wouldn't dream of telling me I was doing it wrong and their way is the right way.  I said maybe....but I am willing to say my way is right and yours is wrong...because it is.

Evangelism and being Spirit led go hand in hand, and not always appropriate to do in 'set ways' as proven in this whole experience with my mum.

[francis drake]

Jesus gave the great commission before He ascended and that is to spread the gospel. Matthew 28:18-20
Surely adults become born again, as well as babies. Yet it takes a humble heart, to respond to the wooing of Gods Holy Spirit and Jesus did say that we need to be like children to enter the kingdom of God.

People may be born again at any age, but just as you say it takes a child like heart to receive that new life.

I know that most people do not respond. I wonder if there are some who are, but they fall away.

The parable of the sower illustrates that fact.
Matt13v3?........A farmer went out to sow his seed.
4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.
Here we see someone whose heart is so hard that the seed remains on the surface for the birds (Satan) to snatch away. There is no new birth whatsoever.

5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.
6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.
Here is someone who has actually allowed the seed to germinate in his heart. ie. New birth is experienced.
This represents someone who is actually born again by the seed of God, but because he doesn't clear the stones away there is little depth or moisture so the plant is withered. This born again saint makes very little progress, but when he dies, he is still a son of his heavenly father. That can never change!

7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants.
Again, the farmer's seed produces new birth (ie.born again). Unfortunately there are also many other plants in his life which choke his new birth.
If there are other plants, that means that other seeds had been previously planted! If the farmer's seed represents the life from God, then the other bad seeds must represent other life, ie. demonic life. Unless we cast out the demonic, our walk with God will always be choked.
Nevertheless, he is still a son of his heavenly father and will return to him on death, even if he never gained any benefit from sonship on earth.

8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop?a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. ?
Here is someone whose garden is well tended, the stones and weeds cleared to maximise the fruit.

I believe that many people respond to the Holy Spirit in the womb or childhood. As a child alone in my bedroom, I responded to the powerful presence of the Holy Spirit. Subsequently, I heard God tell me that he dwelt in my heart and that he alone had made the way to heaven for me. Nevertheless I never heard the gospel preached till my mid 20s.
From first encountering the Lord as a child, till I heard the gospel, I did not know what to do with what the Lord had done in me. I never told anyone and just accepted it as fact. It wasn't until I started to walk the walk and was baptised in the Holy Spirit that I understood my inheritance as a son.

Now its been discovered that babies can be born again in the womb. I didn't have an opinion about this before, because I wanted to seek the truth. Only found the scripture about John the Baptist and it jumped out on me, if you know what I mean!

I've been banging on about children being born again in the womb (using other scriptures) since I first joined the forum. I believe it is extremely important because it shows that new birth is directly from the Tree of Life, not the Tree of Knowledge....even if its bible knowledge!

The Holy Spirit descended on Jesus like a Dove before His ministry. Perhaps likewise on the Body of Christ (His people) when He ascended, on Pentecost, commencing the revived new testament church, for the great commission of the gospel, with power.[/b]

[francis drake]

Pentecost has kind of lost it's purpose here

Why?

[TJ]

If pentecost was not to empower a group of believers [born again]  to grow the mustard seed and to spread the Word.


Then what  was it's purpose


I am now obviously speaking to give way for your own belief that pentecost was not to enable the Church and give it power.

And I am giving way for you @francis drake to expres your view

[francis drake]

If pentecost was not to empower a group of believers [born again]  to grow the mustard seed and to spread the Word.


Then what  was it's purpose


I am now obviously speaking to give way for your own belief that pentecost was not to enable the Church and give it power.

And I am giving way for you @francis drake to expres your view

TJs, you should know better than to put daft words into my mouth.

Of course  Pentecost was meant to enable the Church and give it power. Unfortunately, the church's primary source of power isn't generally the Holy Spirit (Tree of Life) but hierarchical position, dog collars badges and rank. They get things done because they are in charge of the people and control them via the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. True Holy Spirit power is swept to one side by the institutional life of the church system as it builds its army of clones.

Pentecost was called pentecost because of the date. That's all. It was an outpouring of the Holy Spirit on that group at that time. But that outpouring was not the be all or end all of outpourings. It happened again after Peter was released from his interrogation by the Pharisees, and it was poured out again on the Gentiles with Cornelius, and this was repeated throughout the Book of Acts, just as God intended in the Garden of Eden!

Acts10v
Then Peter said, 47?Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.?

The key words are,
"...........received the Holy Spirit just as we have."
Thus Pentecost was never meant to be a stand alone event, that's why Jesus told the disciples that they could freely have the Holy Spirit any time they asked the Father.

The prime ministry of those who claim to walk in the gifts should be to disciple people to hear the voice of God so that they too can walk as God's own children rather than walking as members of a human institution. The true ekklesia of God consists not of man's institutions but of those who hear God's voice and do it.

[John]

Francis,
                "False evangelism is thinking that the purpose of spreading the gospel is to get people born again so they get to heaven when they are dead."
So some churches do that and some churches have minister wearing dog collers and in demoninations there is an organisational structure.
You have clearly had bad experiences in 'churches' But you are as guilty of limiting the Spirit of God as churches that don't listen or recognise him.
 In your blanket condemnation of the 'church' you condem every one who attends the 'church', every minister regardless of how faithfull to God or how Godless they might be.

Have you never studied the history of revival? Are you aware that God has used the ordained Coe ministers as well as the ordinary person in the street/pew/chair.
Read about the isle of lewes revival, how God used to crippled women confind to their cottage. Read about the welsh revival that spread via visitors arround the world.
There is two things in common in all revivals. God humbles All Christians, convicting them of his Holiness and of their sinfulness and that God uses the people he chooses whether 'ordained or not.

The point of my post is that God uses his people those in church organisations and those not in them, we need to work together, dispite differences in views about churches.

[francis drake]

You have clearly had bad experiences in 'churches'

Haha.
Its not about bad experiences John. Its about understanding from scripture and from the Holy Spirit that the hierarchical system of church is rooted in the deception and not God.