Author Topic: When are we accountable to God ?  (Read 2357 times)

Description: now or at Judgement ?

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Serenity

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Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2015, 10:06:39 PM »
I couldn't be an executioner.

Offline Amadeus

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2015, 12:52:15 AM »


The great white Throne Judgement for those who never had life in Revelation 20:11-15 cannot separate unbelievers
from God because they never a "relationship" with God and so it must still be seen as a Judgement which began before
time itself Matthew 13:30;

Is this not giving a resurrection to those who never had a resurrection? Is not the only Resurrection, Jesus?

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As for never dying as in John 11:26 ? it relates to those who believe and live in Jesus and although they shall never die in Christ,
yet they die as death is seen by others. [flesh]

All of this is a result of sin and the judgement that results - whether unbeliever or believer - we have been Judged and
are being Judged and will be Judged.

Many it seems to me have already been condemned and have never come out of that condemnation. Why would they be judged beyond that?

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We all will see God

For what purpose would God show Himself to someone who has never believed, who has never really Lived? How has anyone who never acknowledged and received Life lived?

I have many questions as you see, but not so many answers. Do we need all of those answers to believe and endure to the end with Jesus?



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TJ

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Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2015, 02:03:40 AM »
Well @Amadeus you have certainly got me seeking here and it seems that your posts are quite deep

UNBORN

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So when is judgment for those who never had Life ?

this firstly  got me thinking about hitler and who was answerable or accountable for such abominations in history ?

In this theology hitler would neither be accountable or judged as he never lived in God and neither would those who
obeyed the hitler regime [as an extreme example] even though this caused the termination of so many of God's chosen.

This has really got me thinking in a different direction here as to the accountability of the unsaved [unborn]

Yet the [born and alive] are accountable for every faith act and every work not of God  and of God ?



RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD


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Is this not giving a resurrection to those who never had a resurrection? Is not the only Resurrection, Jesus?


I like this a lot - The non believer and unborn again are not resurrected ? to be judged ?

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Many it seems to me have already been condemned and have never come out of that condemnation. Why would they be judged
 beyond that?

In Numbers 24:2 the pentecostal fire falls on Balaam to preach as a "believer" but not as "born again" before time

In mankind's  free will he/she can be used anytime/anywhere/ by God - but not be resurrected to be judged but rather = separated as before time.....even though used by God ! as is/was bob geldolf.......



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For what purpose would God show Himself to someone who has never believed, who has never really Lived?

Yet God speaks to all - all the time ? I get Numbers 22:21-40 where God speaks to a non believer through a donkey  ?
[Again an exteme example] and God even speaks through the power of the Holy Spirit through  Balaam ?


In this God uses a "Believer" but not a "person of God" to speak

I like the angles here and the thought - it certainly got me questioning

I need more time....

TJ

  • Guest
Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2015, 02:44:02 AM »
Matthew 12:36 talks about the tree's and the fruits  But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day
of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
[the pharisees can be seen as among those accountable -  they not being
born of God nor being of "The Kingdom" The already judged -  as in Matthew 12:34;

Here the separation of the fruit "before time" and in Jesus time...... Matthew 12:37"For by your words you will be justified, and
 by your words you will be condemned."


2 Corinthians 5:10 can be seen as believers

Revelation 1:7 "Every" eye can be seen as only believers or the whole earth saved or unsaved - not referring to tbose
"born again" as they have already seen Him !


It could be seen as Christ coming to earth - therefore unbelievers are not resurrected to see God to be separated ?

Romans 2:7-16 (ESV)

7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but
for those who are self-seeking[a] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10
but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no
 partiality



I always saw all being before the Judgement seat - but this has made me question my own analogy



Matthew 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. Now this is the defining  Scripture here - whether "before Him" is in heaven or earth ?

This would suggest that all [unbelievers and believers [born again and non born] are gathered /resurrected  ?


I would like to searh this topic further in the future !


TJ

  • Guest
Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2015, 03:17:11 AM »
okay - how do you account for 

Matthew 22:12; He asked, 'How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?' The man was speechless. ?


Obviously this person/male/female/ no gender/ ,man in this instance/ relating to the audience and culture/ us now/

Was not meant to be at the "banquet" where God is/heaven/new earth/

How did he get there without God knowing ?/ where God is

Offline Guardian

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Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2015, 03:50:45 PM »
Weren't Adam and Eve [under the conditional adamic covenant within the eternal covenant] accountable for their sin ?
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Offline Amadeus

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2015, 12:07:36 AM »
Well @Amadeus you have certainly got me seeking here and it seems that your posts are quite deep

UNBORN

this firstly  got me thinking about hitler and who was answerable or accountable for such abominations in history ?

In this theology hitler would neither be accountable or judged as he never lived in God and neither would those who
obeyed the hitler regime [as an extreme example] even though this caused the termination of so many of God's chosen.

Was Hitler any worse than many others who simply never had the opportunity and power to accomplish what he did in such a negative way?

Compare for example the man who has allowed his lust for his neighbor's wife to have free rein in his heart versus the man who actually committed physical adultery with such a woman. What was it Jesus said?

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. "Matt 5:28

Man considers what?... while God considers what?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

So then we look at what history and perhaps our own parents or grandparents tell us about Hitler, but with whom do we compare him? Should we compare him with anyone? Consider Apostle Paul's words:

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12


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This has really got me thinking in a different direction here as to the accountability of the unsaved [unborn]

Yet the [born and alive] are accountable for every faith act and every work not of God  and of God ?

RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD

Surely the resurrection of the dead speaks only of the "dead in Christ". Was not a person who was never dead in Christ aways in death and never eligible for any kind of scripturally described resurrection? What would the purpose of such a resurrection be... even if it did not seem to conflict with scripture?

Quote
In Numbers 24:2 the pentecostal fire falls on Balaam to preach as a "believer" but not as "born again" before time

In mankind's  free will he/she can be used anytime/anywhere/ by God - but not be resurrected to be judged but rather = separated as before time.....even though used by God ! as is/was bob geldolf.......

I am uncertain of your meaning. The name, "bob geldolf" means nothing to me.

I am certain that God uses people where they are [unbelievers] such as the Pharaoh who ruled when Moses returned to Egypt to lead the people out.

Someone always seems to be available to accomplish what people seem to want [not what God wants] rather than what they should want [what God wants].



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Yet God speaks to all - all the time ? I get Numbers 22:21-40 where God speaks to a non believer through a donkey  ?
[Again an exteme example] and God even speaks through the power of the Holy Spirit through  Balaam ?

In this God uses a "Believer" but not a "person of God" to speak

Even if God speaks to every person all of the time, do all have "ears to hear" and of those who do have "ears to hear" how many are always paying attention?

As to Balaam, was absolutely and completely an "unbeliever" or was he like probably many of today who have been "called" but have been only sometimes (at times of their own convenience?) faithful?

[For many are called, but few are chosen. Matt 22:14]

[These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Rev 17:14]


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I like the angles here and the thought - it certainly got me questioning

I need more time....

Probably the questions will never stop as long as we continue our walk with Him and our search for more of Him

Offline Amadeus

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2015, 12:42:23 AM »
Matthew 12:36 talks about the tree's and the fruits  But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. [the pharisees can be seen as among those accountable -  they not being born of God nor being of "The Kingdom" The already judged -  as in Matthew 12:34;

Is there only one physical day (24 hours long according to the reckoning of men) of final judgment for all men, believers and unbelievers alike? Or has each person who did not acknowledge God and His Son by the end of his "course" (allotted time as a steward of what God provided) simply remain then with no further hope and go to the dust? 

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Ecc 9:5


Quote
Here the separation of the fruit "before time" and in Jesus time...... Matthew 12:37"For by your words you will be justified, and
 by your words you will be condemned."


2 Corinthians 5:10 can be seen as believers

Revelation 1:7 "Every" eye can be seen as only believers or the whole earth saved or unsaved - not referring to tbose
"born again" as they have already seen Him !

Why is it to be "every eye" that has ever existed rather than every eye that still exists? The natural eyes were never able to see God:

What does this verse tell us?

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Ex 33:20

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It could be seen as Christ coming to earth - therefore unbelievers are not resurrected to see God to be separated ?

Consider what the "earth" is. Is it not speaking about the little bit of "earth" which comprises the vessel which is you or the vessel which is me? Has something happened to this vessel of "earth" something happen to the contents of this vessel of "earth" by mean of the Holy Spirit?

Then does he not say, "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." Heb 10:5?


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Romans 2:7-16 (ESV)

7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but
for those who are self-seeking[a] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10
but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no
 partiality



I always saw all being before the Judgement seat - but this has made me question my own analogy

Where is this judgment seat? The kingdom seemingly is within us [Luke 17:21] so why would judgment be elsewhere?

Quote
Matthew 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. Now this is the defining  Scripture here - whether "before Him" is in heaven or earth ?

This would suggest that all [unbelievers and believers [born again and non born] are gathered /resurrected  ?[/size]

r in the future !

Who has a future? Does the person who dies in his sins rather than in Christ have a future? What would be the purpose of gathering people who refused any hope right up to the end their course?

What and where is heaven?