Author Topic: When are we accountable to God ?  (Read 2359 times)

Description: now or at Judgement ?

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TJ

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Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2015, 01:22:08 PM »
Ahh  Hosea 11:1-4NIV - thanks Primrose  :)

ALL GENDERS ACCOUNTABLE THE SAME

Interesting that Israel is a son and God called him whereas the Gentile Church is a she and God loves her

But then Israel can be defined as a she or he - as these are simply metaphors/types

Eg : Micah 5:3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor bears a son, and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites. here she has to be female to bear son's

In Amos 5:2 Displayed as a virgin having adulterated  her heart

Hosea 11:1-4 Shows God  as a Father figure because He loves His Son who is an heir [group gentile Church] - [singular - male or female or both for examples of /allegories/pictures/]

Both genders being heirs and all enveloped under the "One" who is genderless - being all things to all and all in all.



REPENTANCE AFTER DEATH

Concerning repentance after death - ....

The common scripture to be dragged up would be lazarus and the poor man  - eg:

Luke 16:25-26 ?But Abraham said, ?Child, remember that in your lifetime you got the good things and Lazarus the bad things. It?s not like that here. Here he?s consoled and you?re tormented. Besides, in all these matters there is a huge chasm set between us so that no one can go from us to you even if he wanted to, nor can anyone cross over from you to us.?

27-28 ?The rich man said, ?Then let me ask you, Father: Send him to the house of my father where I have five brothers, so he can tell them the score and warn them so they won?t end up here in this place of torment.


And Luke 16:30-31; "'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' 31 He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

This just shows the stubburness of hearts but does not conclude that it is impossible - neither concludes that souls cannot turn after death


I suppose it depends how long "Souls " have before the final Judgement ?

But I see no reason why after death is not consciousness and emotion etc - which would equate with "repentance and turning"

After all - "how could there be torment and knowledge of where you are -  If people weren't aware of it






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Offline Amadeus

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2015, 07:08:29 PM »
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Amadeus:

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth,
 it shall die.? Ezekiel 18:4

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TJ's:
Never saw it in that way before perhaps because I read the NIV - re : For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child--both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.

I have lots of Bibles, including an NIV, but for studying and reading I still stick with the KJV in English plus two others [Valera (Spanish)& Luther (German)]. The KJV is where I started and it complements the other two for me better than any of the more modern English translations.

As for interpretations, while I know I am guilty of doing that too often I try not to interpret things too unconditionally. Over the very many years that I have served the Lord in any measure, I have changed or been changed too many times to presume that it won?t happen again.


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These two translations can be interpreted quite differently  !

Now look at this in the New Living Translation

For all people are mine tojudge--both parents and children alike. And this is my rule: The person who sins is the one who will die

This is always a problem when we dig too deep into word meanings. I?m fair in Spanish and German, but in the Hebrew or Aramaic or Greek or Latin, I have to depend very much on the expertise of others. In these things, we do the best that we can but ultimately we must trust in God. He is fair, even if we are not. He is able, even if we are not.

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And so here sins can mean death in life - to some - what does the this actually mean ?

Here the believer still sins but God see's Jesus

God sees Jesus in us if we are not quenching the Spirit so much and so often that there is more of us [the old man] than there is of him [the new or inner man].

Remember the old saying,  ?We are what we eat??

If we continually consume more garbage on our jobs, or the Internet or TV, etc. than we do of the things of God, then will we not continue to fall short with God to the point where we join the vast majority of the Hebrews who died without ever reaching the Promised Land?

 

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Amadeus:
The resurrection of damnation would, I believe, be for those who were in Christ, but failed to do all necessary to even
be part of the Body of Christ at the end of their course (road).

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Although this evaluation seems logical - what can we do to qualify ?  surely the work was done by Christ and we simply need to turn around and begin living in Him?

How much has God given us and what have been doing with what He has given us? This I believe is the key as contained in this verse:

?But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.? Luke 12:48

Simply put: ?much is given, much is required?.

TJ

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Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2015, 12:50:27 AM »
@Amadeus
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KJV in English plus two others [Valera (Spanish)& Luther (German)]. The KJV is where I started and it complements the
 other two for me better than any of the more modern English translations.

King James is a very trustworthy addition  :D

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This is always a problem when we dig too deep into word meanings. I?m fair in Spanish and German, but in the Hebrew or Aramaic or Greek or Latin, I have to depend very much on the expertise of others.

Aye @Amadeus

The trouble is the educated analysis of the "Word" can undermined  the simple truths of the gospel - wherein the original meanings can be lost trying to translate them to this present society.

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For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.? Luke 12:48


In this God would not give much unless He knew that the recipient would return ......

Read the parable of the rich man - in which the rich man lost His salvation due to his savings in the world and his riches instead of  the riches in God




@Primrose

Three questions are "Resurrected"  here considering   salvation after death

1. What compartments of Hades are these people in ?

2. Bearing in mind these people are already judged in their compartments of hades ! already being separated .

3. In what state of time are they in ?  "Eternal ?" - Temporal ? God's time ?  eternal time ? In His rest ? lIteral time ?"

Some may repent after God being conscious of their state but we must ask "what is their state ?"

Have you lost someone and do you fear that they may be lost ?

Or do you simply see a a lot of death and fear for those  who die with no meaning ?


Offline Rose Anna

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2015, 01:45:58 AM »
@Primrose Three questions are "Resurrected"  here considering   salvation after death1. What compartments of Hades are these people in ?2. Bearing in mind these people are already judged in their compartments of hades ! already being separated .3. In what state of time are they in ?  "Eternal ?" - Temporal ? God's time ?  eternal time ? In His rest ? lIteral time ?"Some may repent after God being conscious of their state but we must ask "what is their state ?"Have you lost someone and do you fear that they may be lost ?Or do you simply see a a lot of death and fear for those  who die with no meaning ?

I dont have all the biblical knowledge about the compartments. Please excuse my spelling because Ive lost my ipad tablet.  ;)
Seen lots of terms such as meaning the grave. Hell, Hades, Shoel, tartarus, prison, paradise, bosom of Abraham.
It looks like the righteous and wicked shared the same place. Think that changed with Jesus.

In Romans 8 it says neither death or depth can seperate the love of God. Others resistant to Him will still be raised.  As all will. He can raise from dust and ashes. Though question whether every one will be resurrected immortal because they need the imperishible seed of the Word of God as said in a previous post.

I believe these compartment places are temporary because death and hades will be destroyed and swallowed up by eternity.
I dont see souls as immortal until they have the Word of God, the imperishible seed. Only it looks like the metaphysical make up outlives flesh and blood. Yet can be destroyed  as flesh and blood is. Unless there is imperishible seed.
Regarding consciousness.  I would nt know but for some reason am thinking of it in terms of how God speaks to the foetus inside the womb. Yet a dead person has lived their time.
Actually the whole analogy is like pregnancy and birth.  In Jonah in the belly . Jesus dying, descending and being resurrected. This temporary age being swallowed up by eternity.

Edit later it just came to me that people received forgiveness in simple ways in Jesus ministry. Touching His hem. Other examples.

When I was first saved I cared very deeply for wanting others to be saved. Not just those close to me but even those who dont like me. We all hate death and I absolutely abhorr it and thats one reason why I love Jesus is because He is all about life.
I really dont want anyone to die.  I often see someone frail and vulnerable behind the mask and thats what I see. Precious people .they need Jesus but are so blind. 

TJ

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Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2015, 01:29:17 PM »

Well the scripture about Abraham and the separation gives the theory of the divide and compartments in hades

Hence when Christ descended [Holy Spirit] He took with Him those  in the upper compartment [that's the theory]








TJ

  • Guest
Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2015, 01:44:46 PM »
I was considering accountability alongside Matthew 12:36; But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.

Where some people have jobs that require lots of verbal "empty words"

Farmers or lone workers would be less likely to be in the firing line...

Those deceased must also be accountable [if God hears their hearts/thoughts/speech/prayers/] which kind of answers the question = "does God answer the prayers of unbelievers - ? its a kind of ridiculous question really, seeing as those praying are believing .

Fruitless words would certainly put the "web" into accountability...   reader:

If we line this up with "the Christian and Judgement" where we have a giving and taking away /past/present/future/  then accountability might just be seen as "empty words" therefore of no use to anyone being dissolved like vapour.





Offline Amadeus

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2015, 04:16:40 PM »
Aye @Amadeus

The trouble is the educated analysis of the "Word" can undermined  the simple truths of the gospel - wherein the original meanings can be lost trying to translate them to this present society.

Indeed, I can as a man in the flesh provide an acceptable literal translation of a verse or verses of scripture from English to Spanish, but if God is not in it, how well have done? Is this kind of work likely to earn the following words for being good and faithful?

"Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy Lord" Matt 25:21


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In this God would not give much unless He knew that the recipient would return ......

Well even when we were born naturally to woman, we were given many gifts and before we began to serve God at all, did not God provide us with yet additional gifts? Not every person born started with exactly the same gifts, so even before he knew God, he could only do his best with what he already had. Not all were born women. Not all were born men. Not all were born with the ability to write a Theory of Relativity. Etcetera!

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Read the parable of the rich man - in which the rich man lost His salvation due to his savings in the world and his riches instead of  the riches in God

In the parable of the talents, we see, of course, that those who properly used what they were given were given more.

In the case of the rich man perhaps he did not yet have the final necessary ingredient for his salvation. He failed his final test. Each of us has an allotted period of time to work (while it is day), and we must work until the end of our course. A man can do wonderful works for God and then fail in the final hour. See the unnamed prophet out of Judah in I Kings 13.


Offline Rose Anna

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2015, 05:32:13 PM »
Its not just fruitful words .Its putting them into action thats taken into account. Being doers of the word. What are words without true love. Do Gods people stand out as different from the rest. To show they are disciples.
God knows.


Ive registered my ipad tablet as lost.  Think I left it on the bus.  ;)