Author Topic: When are we accountable to God ?  (Read 2358 times)

Description: now or at Judgement ?

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Serenity

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Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2015, 12:46:00 AM »
Quote
What and where is heaven?

Many places and on many levels it seems.

Offline Amadeus

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2015, 01:19:55 AM »
okay - how do you account for 

Matthew 22:12; He asked, 'How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?' The man was speechless. ?


Obviously this person/male/female/ no gender/ ,man in this instance/ relating to the audience and culture/ us now/

Was not meant to be at the "banquet" where God is/heaven/new earth/

How did he get there without God knowing ?/ where God is

Jesus is the Door or the Gate into the Tree of Life, which is beyond the Cherubim that guard the Way with a two-edged sword. When we are "called", like Lazarus, we hear and come forth, but until they have been removed and replaced with proper garments we are still clothed in "grave clothes".

Or we may be like the man whose house was swept and garnished  [Matt 12:44], but empty. We are to be emptied of the filth of our fleshly ways, but we are also to be filled with the "flesh and blood" of Jesus [John 6:53] and we are to have on proper garments {eph 6:11-17]when we enter in...

 

TJ

  • Guest
Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2015, 01:56:17 PM »
Well @Amadeus    It Really gets me enthusiastic when others "think out of the box"

[Not that my view is representative of God's]

But it's certainly opened up a new avenue of approach that I've never considered - I love the "coming from different angles" [its something that God does]



One scripture I would like to throw forward is - Concerning

THE RESURRECTION TO DAMNATION

In this you might consider the immortal soul [without spirit]

What would you make of =

John 5:29; and come out--those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Or KJ And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil,  unto the resurrection of damnation.

In this God is taking account of life's lived before the eternal condition/state is judged - so in this we switch from "People being accountable" TO "God taking all things into account"

What would "Resurrection of damnation mean ?"

Offline Rose Anna

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2015, 05:54:03 PM »
Really gets me enthusiastic when others "think out of the box"

[Not that my view is representative of God's]

But it's certainly opened up a new avenue of approach that I've never considered - I love the "coming from different angles" [its something that God does]



One scripture I would like to throw forward is - Concerning

THE RESURRECTION TO DAMNATION

In this you might consider the immortal soul [without spirit]

What would you make of =

John 5:29; and come out--those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Or KJ And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil,  unto the resurrection of damnation.

In this God is taking account of life's lived before the eternal condition/state is judged - so in this we switch from "People being accountable" TO "God taking all things into account"

What would "Resurrection of damnation mean ?"

I love the coming out of the box and seeking the truth together.  That's what it is.
That's how many of us found the truth in Jesus, and dare I say that beforehand there were probably lots of mistakes in our thinking. Still afterwards, but coming more and more into the light.

Outside of the basic truths in Christ,I was taught many things by the church that I've questioned. Only gone along to be on safe ground , so to speak

It is accepted in christiandom that when we physically die that we are without hope of being saved, beyond the grave. Really though I think we need to look upon it as essential for others to be saved before they physically die.

Only  the description of the chasm in the parable of the rich man and lazereth, and appointed to live once and then the judgement does make it seem that the church teaching is correct.

Yet there are scriptures of appearing to show that people are capable of being saved beyond the grave too. As mentioned. 1 Peter 3:18-20  just a few scriptures later 1 Peter 4:5-6  As I said I can  see how Jesus is the gate way from death to life , both before and after the grave. Not saying I'm right or wrong but seeking the truth.

 John 5:25kjv Verily verily I say unto you the hour is coming , and now is , when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they shall live. Dead before or after grave, or both?
John 5:28kjv Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming , in which all that are in the grave shall hear His voice.
John  5:29kjv And shall come forth ; they that have done good, unto the resurrection  of life and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Daniel 12:2kjv And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Ezekiel 16:52-54kjv

 52 Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame, in that thou hast justified thy sisters.

53 When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:

54 That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.

Does seem to be about eternal damnation because Jesus said:

 Luke 10:12 Jesus said :
"But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city."

Sodom and Gommorah the example of the ungodly  2 Peter 2:6 
Yet a future for Sodom but no mention of Gommorah. 

Only God is immortal.  1 Timothy 1:17

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. 2 Timothy 1:10

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life. Romans 2:7





TJ

  • Guest
Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2015, 01:11:37 AM »
I love the coming out of the box and seeking the truth together.  That's what it is.
That's how many of us found the truth in Jesus, and dare I say that beforehand there were probably lots of mistakes in our thinking. Still afterwards, but coming more and more into the light.

Outside of the basic truths in Christ,I was taught many things by the church that I've questioned. Only gone along to be on safe ground , so to speak

It is accepted in christiandom that when we physically die that we are without hope of being saved, beyond the grave. Really though I think we need to look upon it as essential for others to be saved before they physically die.

Only  the description of the chasm in the parable of the rich man and lazereth, and appointed to live once and then the judgement does make it seem that the church teaching is correct.

Yet there are scriptures of appearing to show that people are capable of being saved beyond the grave too. As mentioned. 1 Peter 3:18-20  just a few scriptures later 1 Peter 4:5-6  As I said I can  see how Jesus is the gate way from death to life , both before and after the grave. Not saying I'm right or wrong but seeking the truth.

 John 5:25kjv Verily verily I say unto you the hour is coming , and now is , when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they shall live. Dead before or after grave, or both?
John 5:28kjv Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming , in which all that are in the grave shall hear His voice.
John  5:29kjv And shall come forth ; they that have done good, unto the resurrection  of life and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Daniel 12:2kjv And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Ezekiel 16:52-54kjv

 52 Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame, in that thou hast justified thy sisters.

53 When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:

54 That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.

Does seem to be about eternal damnation because Jesus said:

 Luke 10:12 Jesus said :
"But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city."

Sodom and Gommorah the example of the ungodly  2 Peter 2:6 
Yet a future for Sodom but no mention of Gommorah. 

Only God is immortal.  1 Timothy 1:17

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. 2 Timothy 1:10

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life. Romans 2:7






Well - skipping through the bible we find scriptures relating to The Lambs book of life = Luke 10:20; -
Revelation 21:27 - Exodus 32:32;


Revelation 13:8; states All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in
 the Lamb's book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.


This Tree of Life was there in the Garden and all may eat from it..


This is the eternal covenant - see : What is the eternal covenant ?

In the garden of Eden Adam and Eve were given skins to cover their nakedness Genesis 3:21;

Therefore people could be saved after death if their names are written in the Lambs book of life

Whether names can be written after death  is questionable

Unless they feed from the the heavenly Tree Revelation 22:2; which they cannot unless they are granted access Genesis 3:24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

In this God is accountable for us as a Father - love hurts



http://faithq.co.uk/index.php/component/content/article/27-covenants/70-what-is-the-eternal-covenant?Itemid=276

Offline Rose Anna

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2015, 05:38:14 AM »
They can only feed from the tree of life, through Jesus. Only some will try other ways.

Most assuredly, I say to you, "he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.? John 10:1-4
Then Jesus said to them again, Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.  I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.  The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."John 10:7-10

Isn't this the will of the father:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance 2 Peter 3:9

 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. Romans 8:28-29

He foreknew who would want the foretaste of eternity and who would respond to Him before the creation of the world.

Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.






Offline Rose Anna

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2015, 06:33:14 AM »
There are lots of mentions of two separate resurrections.
Daniel 12:2 John 5:29

Paul says in Acts 24:15 the  resurrection of the just and the unjust. 
In revelations the resurrection of the just is first and the resurrection of the unjust is second. Revelation 20:5-6

1 Corinthians 15:52-54  the corruptable will be clothed with the incorruptible the perishable with the imperishable.

For you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. 1 Peter 1:23


 Two seperate resurrections.  Only immortality appears to be connected to the " just" being  born of imperisible seed.  see also Romans 2:7

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6

The second death has no power because they are raised immortal. It seems.

This raises the question if the unjust are raised immortal, if they did not have imperishable seed, and Romans 2:7 connects immortality to
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life.


I don't know how correct or incorrect it is, but it's suggested that when the unjust are resurrected that they live out their years in an perishable body in the judgement period and can choose Jesus then, or just  live out the years. Ive seen it argued that its not a quick process. As you know  there's lots in the old testament prophesy short and long books about the future. Already much fulfilled in Christ the Messiah, when He was born.

A curious part is : Isaiah 65:20kjv
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. (Still sinners but in in the process of restoration.)


Offline Rose Anna

Re: When are we accountable to God ?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2015, 06:54:23 AM »
Interested in seeing @Amadeus as he gives a very interesting response. I've already learned from him.