Author Topic: Did Christ go to Hell ?  (Read 2702 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2015, 04:12:18 PM »

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What is it that turns a dead soul into a living soul? what is the 'living' part of that Scripture?

Hi the way I see it God breathed into Adam the breath of life it say's nothing about an emortal  spirit until Pentecost then those who believed received the holy spirit.

Love and Peace
Dave 

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #73 on: October 28, 2015, 04:24:25 PM »

I'm not inserting my own words, Look again, 1 Thess 4: 14, "Will God BRING WITH HIM",  How can God bring the souls with Him if they are asleep in the grave, Are you saying God lives in a grave??. NO..NO.., The souls will come from Heaven, Not the grave.

Man is a Spirit, "Pneuma", who has a soul, "Psuche", and lives in a body, "Soma", Three different Greek words, Three different parts of man.
God breathed the spirit and soul into Adam, and all mankind, The Hebrew says, Man became a talking spirit, The spirit and soul are so closely put together, it takes the word of God to separate them. Heb 4: 12.

Please note, We do have a spirit and the Greek word is "Pneuma", as I have said. See 1 Thess 5: 23.

How about this from the lips of our Lord.

Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Seams pretty strait forward to me no man has gone up to Heaven except Christ who came down from Heaven.
In nearly all verses relating to the resurrection words raise up are used which means bring up from below not bring down from heaven.
There is no one in Heaven or hell all the dead are in the there graves not aware of anything.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #74 on: October 28, 2015, 04:38:02 PM »
How about this from the lips of our Lord.

Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Seams pretty strait forward to me no man has gone up to Heaven except Christ who came down from Heaven.
In nearly all verses relating to the resurrection words raise up are used which means bring up from below not bring down from heaven.
There is no one in Heaven or hell all the dead are in the there graves not aware of anything.

Love and Peace
Dave



When Jesus said no man has ascended to heaven, He was right, as Heaven wasn't open until Jesus rose from the dead. Until then, the OT righteous went to Abraham's bosom, in the underworld, See Lk 16: 22--25.
resurrection does  mean coming up from the grave, That's where the dead body goes, but the Spirit & soul of the Christians goes to heaven when the body dies, See
2 Cor 5: 1--8. Phil 1: 23. Rev 6: 9.  Rev 7: 9--15.
So we have seen that people are in heaven, Now for people in hell. The Hebrew word for, "Hell", is, "Sheol", the underworld the place of the departed spirits, And the Hebrew word for, "The grave", Is, "Qeber", The place where the dead bodies go.
The Greek word for, ".Hell", Is, "Hades", The underworld, the place where the departed spirit of man goes to. and the Greek word for, "The grave", Is, "Mnemeion", where the dead bodies are.
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Offline davetaff

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #75 on: October 29, 2015, 03:39:44 PM »


When Jesus said no man has ascended to heaven, He was right, as Heaven wasn't open until Jesus rose from the dead. Until then, the OT righteous went to Abraham's bosom, in the underworld, See Lk 16: 22--25.
resurrection does  mean coming up from the grave, That's where the dead body goes, but the Spirit & soul of the Christians goes to heaven when the body dies, See
2 Cor 5: 1--8. Phil 1: 23. Rev 6: 9.  Rev 7: 9--15.
So we have seen that people are in heaven, Now for people in hell. The Hebrew word for, "Hell", is, "Sheol", the underworld the place of the departed spirits, And the Hebrew word for, "The grave", Is, "Qeber", The place where the dead bodies go.
The Greek word for, ".Hell", Is, "Hades", The underworld, the place where the departed spirit of man goes to. and the Greek word for, "The grave", Is, "Mnemeion", where the dead bodies are.

Hi Jesus4me
Where did you get Abraham's bosom from there is no mention of it in the OT so how could anyone go there that,s what what the priests of Jesus's day believed it was a false tradition if it's not in the scripture of the day then it  don't exist.

So jest to recap a little according to you Lazarus has been in Heaven for about 2000 years with God and Jesus enjoying everything heaven has to offer then at some point in the future Jesus will say to him and all those in heaven now you have to go back to earth and put on your bodies so I can reign over you for a 1000 years dose not seam very logical to me.

After the 1000 years are up Jesus say's get my big white throne out and bring up all those in hell and torment and when I find them guilty throw them in the lake of fire where they can burn for ever and ever.

You say believers will go to Heaven but  but dose not scripture tell us heaven will come down to us.

  Rev 21:3  And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #76 on: October 29, 2015, 04:16:20 PM »
Hi Jesus4me
Where did you get Abraham's bosom from there is no mention of it in the OT so how could anyone go there that,s what what the priests of Jesus's day believed it was a false tradition if it's not in the scripture of the day then it  don't exist.

So jest to recap a little according to you Lazarus has been in Heaven for about 2000 years with God and Jesus enjoying everything heaven has to offer then at some point in the future Jesus will say to him and all those in heaven now you have to go back to earth and put on your bodies so I can reign over you for a 1000 years dose not seam very logical to me.

After the 1000 years are up Jesus say's get my big white throne out and bring up all those in hell and torment and when I find them guilty throw them in the lake of fire where they can burn for ever and ever.

You say believers will go to Heaven but  but dose not scripture tell us heaven will come down to us.

  Rev 21:3  And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Love and Peace
Dave


The OT righteous went to the underworld, the place Jesus calls, Abraham's bosom, We know this is a true fact, for two reasons,
[1]Because Jesus said so.
[2]Because Abraham's bosom and hell are real, Even if you thing Lk 16 is a parable, A parable is a discourse that reveals a Spiritual truth. So we know Abraham's bosom, or the underworld place for the OT righteous was a real place.
Plus, Saul had Samuel called up from the place of bliss. 1 Sam 28: 15. "Disquieted" means,  "To trouble, To make angry"..

Those in heaven will come back with Jesus at the rapture, and get their resurrected bodies, then we will be caught up to meet them, and go to heaven. Then after the tribulation period, we come back to reign with Jesus.
Then after the judgment, the New Jerusalem [God's dwelling place] will come down to earth.
The "New heaven" in Rev 21: 1. isn't heaven the dwelling place of God, Their are three heavens,
[1]Where the birds and planes fly.
[2]Where the sun moon and stars are.
[3]The dwelling place of God.
Please note, The Holy City, the new Jerusalem comes out of heaven, [Which heaven]. Peter talks about the new heavens' "plural", 2 Pet 3: 13, Because the old heavens will pass away. v 12. God has to create  new heavens because of the wicked spirits in heavenly places, Eph 6: 12.
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Offline davetaff

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2015, 02:20:58 PM »
Hi Jesus4me

Quote
you said
  The OT righteous went to the underworld, the place Jesus calls, Abraham's bosom,   
By this I take it to mean the underworld is the grave Abrahams bosom is not Heaven so if the righteous went to the  underworld/grave surely God would not  torment them there.

Quote
I copied this from a web page how would you respond to it
 The HyperTexts

How many times is "hell" mentioned in the Bible?

How often does the word "hell" appear in the Bible? As the table below demonstrates, according to the consensus opinion of modern Bible scholarship, the word "hell" was never mentioned, not even a single time, in the entire Bible! In fact, the Hebrew language lacks any word that means "hell." That's a very curious omission, if an all-wise God gave the Bible to the ancient Hebrew prophets! And while some Bible translations still contain a small handful of cryptic references to "hell," those references raise a perplexing question: Why does "hell" suddenly pop up in a few stray verses here and there in the later-written books of the Bible, when in earlier biblical chronologies covering thousands of years there had never been any mention of "hell" or any possibility of suffering after death?
   

Hear is the link I would value your opinion
http://www.thehypertexts.com/How%20many%20tines%20is%20hell%20mentioned%20in%20the%20Bible.htm
l
It gives a list of Bible translations 29 of which do not contain the word hell how do you respond to that are all these schollers wrong and if so why.
the other question is when did God create hell there don't seam to be any mention of it in scripture.

Love and Peace
Dave 
http://www.thehypertexts.com/How%20many%20tines%20is%20hell%20mentioned%20in%20the%20Bible.htm

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #78 on: October 31, 2015, 01:16:55 PM »
Hi Jesus4me
By this I take it to mean the underworld is the grave Abrahams bosom is not Heaven so if the righteous went to the  underworld/grave surely God would not  torment them there.

Hear is the link I would value your opinion
http://www.thehypertexts.com/How%20many%20tines%20is%20hell%20mentioned%20in%20the%20Bible.htm
l
It gives a list of Bible translations 29 of which do not contain the word hell how do you respond to that are all these schollers wrong and if so why.
the other question is when did God create hell there don't seam to be any mention of it in scripture.

Love and Peace
Dave


[1]The underworld, which Hell is part of it, and the Hebrew word for "Hell", Is, Sheol", whereas the Hebrew word for the "Grave", Is "Qeber".
The Greek word for hell, is, "Hades", and the Greek word for the grave, is, "Mnemeion". Two different Hebrew and Greek words two different places.

[2]Abraham's bosom was in the underworld, and Samuel was called up from it, be Saul. also see Lk 16: 19--25, It shows that the righteous was in one compartment, and the un-righteous in a different compartment, [Which is hell.
The Christians go to heaven when the die, As I have given you scriptures for it, before.

[3]The original Hebrew and Greek Texts do have "Hell" in them. The Hebrew word is, "Sheol", and there are three Greek words for "Hell".
[A]Hades, The place of the departed sinners spirits.
Tartarus, The place for the fallen angels.
[C]Gehenna", The lake of fire, Jesus is the only one to use this word for hell, and He mentions the soul and body, whereas in hell, "Hades", only the soul goes there.

Modern translations are not reliable, and neither are modern day scholars,and if they put the word, "Grave" instead of Hell, that's wrong because both the Hebrew and the Greek say hell is wrongly rendered the grave.

I know people who went to Bible college believing the whole Bible, but left Bible college not believing certain doctrine's. And the reason is, modern theology is just mans opinions.
http://www.thehypertexts.com/How%20many%20tines%20is%20hell%20mentioned%20in%20the%20Bible.htm
Teaching God's liberating truth

Offline davetaff

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2015, 02:24:30 PM »
Hi Jesus4me
Thanks for your reply but I have great difficultly flying in the face of a great many scholars who say your Translation of hell hades and sheol is wrong as I understand it Hades and sheol mean the same thing the grave the place of the dead Hell as it is generally understood is not found in scripture.
Don't you think it strange that St Paul in all his writings does not mention hell or hades and his writings are said to be the earliest of the NT books one would think if the doctoring of hell was so vitally important he would have mentioned it.

Another strange thing I found is this
New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE) Roman Catholic.  In this Bible the word hell dose not appear anywhere  which I thing is strange because It was RC church which more than any other promoted the doctoring of purgatory and hell and in there first bible the Vulgate the word hell appeared 111 times now in the latest translation there are down to 0 I feel Gods trying to tell us something don't you.

Love and Peace
Dave     

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