Author Topic: Did Christ go to Hell ?  (Read 2692 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2015, 02:41:42 PM »

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Hi
Quote
Frances drake said
Have you not read the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke16.

Yes I have read it many times it's a parable and as such there are quite a few interpretations as I see it the rich man is in the lake of fire where unbelievers end up after the resurrection of judgement not the same place as Hell fire and brimstone which dose not exist.
let me ask you this Hitler exterminated millions of people mostly Jew's and if the doctoring of hell fire and eternal damnation is true then God is going to do something far worse and you think that's OK I thought we were talking about the God of Love.
You asked
Quote
Do you really believe that living in eternal condemnation with your dead friends would be a more loving environment that eternal life with the God of love? - See more at:

Lets put it this way imagine you were in heaven and like the poor man you are looking down into hell watching all your loved ones being tormented for ever would this be heaven for you Maybe its Gods idea of prime time TV I only know I want nothing to do with it it's got nothing at all to do with the God I love.

The doctoring of Hell fire and brimstone comes from Greek and roman mythology it has nothing to do with Christianity it's a fairy story implanted in the minds of man by the god of this world satan it's turning people away from God in there droves and for some reason beyond my comprehension many churches are still preaching it  trying to frighten people into loving God you can't get people to love you through fear.
The doctoring of hell is rubbish poppycock balderdash a fairy story a myth to promote it is to do the devils work.
end of rant

Love and Peace
Dave   

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Offline Amadeus

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2015, 05:38:03 PM »

Hell, "Hades", is the "Underworld, the place of the departed souls", Not the earth, or the flesh.
Jesus was a Spirit, "Greek, Pneuma" Lk 23: 46. who had a soul, "Psuche", Acts 2: 27, and lived in a body, "Soma", three different Greek words, three different parts of man, See 1 Thess 5: 23.
The Greek word for, "Hell", is, "Hades" and the Greek word for "The earth" is, "Ge" [Land] or, "Epigeios", [The terrestrial planet].
But Jesus went to Hell, "Hades", Not, Earth,  "Ge or Epigeios", Acts 2: 27, & v31.

What would people do if it were not for interpreters of the Greek, the Hebrew and the Aramaic? They would, I suppose, just die in their sins for lack of an interpreter. But, is that what the scripture says? It certainly does speak of something lacking, doesn't it? Something, I believe, not about an Interpreter, but about a Comforter:

"So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and 'they had no comforter'; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but 'they had no comforter'." Ecc 4:1

And Jesus speaks of taking care of that lack:

"But the 'Comforter', which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

The apostle Paul does write for the need of an interpreter, but it is speaking of a God-given gift rather than of a man learned discipline:

"Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret." I Cor 14:13

I don't know all of the answers that God has for us and really probably no man does. But, I do have my answers, not obtained through study but through the Holy Ghost. The ones where I err are likely the ones I took on when quenching the Spirit.







Offline francis drake

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2015, 05:54:57 PM »
Hi
Yes I have read it many times it's a parable and as such there are quite a few interpretations as I see it the rich man is in the lake of fire where unbelievers end up after the resurrection of judgement not the same place as Hell fire and brimstone which dose not exist.
let me ask you this Hitler exterminated millions of people mostly Jew's and if the doctoring of hell fire and eternal damnation is true then God is going to do something far worse and you think that's OK I thought we were talking about the God of Love.
You asked
Lets put it this way imagine you were in heaven and like the poor man you are looking down into hell watching all your loved ones being tormented for ever would this be heaven for you Maybe its Gods idea of prime time TV I only know I want nothing to do with it it's got nothing at all to do with the God I love.

The doctoring of Hell fire and brimstone comes from Greek and roman mythology it has nothing to do with Christianity it's a fairy story implanted in the minds of man by the god of this world satan it's turning people away from God in there droves and for some reason beyond my comprehension many churches are still preaching it  trying to frighten people into loving God you can't get people to love you through fear.
The doctoring of hell is rubbish poppycock balderdash a fairy story a myth to promote it is to do the devils work.
end of rant

Love and Peace
Dave

Whichever you describe hell, nobody goes there unless they first, by free choice, reject the God of love. Jesus made it clear that men prefer darkness rather than light, and an eternity of darkness is what they will get because of that choice.
God would have all men be saved but it is they who reject his life. To God, man's freewill is paramount.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2015, 10:47:11 AM »
What would people do if it were not for interpreters of the Greek, the Hebrew and the Aramaic? They would, I suppose, just die in their sins for lack of an interpreter. But, is that what the scripture says? It certainly does speak of something lacking, doesn't it? Something, I believe, not about an Interpreter, but about a Comforter:

"So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and 'they had no comforter'; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but 'they had no comforter'." Ecc 4:1

And Jesus speaks of taking care of that lack:

"But the 'Comforter', which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

The apostle Paul does write for the need of an interpreter, but it is speaking of a God-given gift rather than of a man learned discipline:

"Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret." I Cor 14:13

I don't know all of the answers that God has for us and really probably no man does. But, I do have my answers, not obtained through study but through the Holy Ghost. The ones where I err are likely the ones I took on when quenching the Spirit.


To fully understand the Bible, we  need to know when It's God doing the speaking, When it's a Biblical character speaking or when it's the translator, translating wrongly or rightly.
For instance, Some OT translate hell as the grave, But the Hebrew word for the, "Grave" in those verses, is "Sheol" Hell, Not "Qeber" the grave.
That is why people are mislead into believing we go to the grave and not hell. Our bodies do go to the grave, But our Spirit/soul goes to either heaven or hell.
Teaching God's liberating truth

Offline davetaff

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2015, 02:18:48 PM »
Hi
Quote
Jesus4me said
 To fully understand the Bible, we  need to know when It's God doing the speaking, When it's a Biblical character speaking or when it's the translator, translating wrongly or rightly.
For instance, Some OT translate hell as the grave, But the Hebrew word for the, "Grave" in those verses, is "Sheol" Hell, Not "Qeber" the grave.
That is why people are mislead into believing we go to the grave and not hell. Our bodies do go to the grave, But our Spirit/soul goes to either heaven or hell.   

Our bodies do go to the grave where it sleeps waiting for the resurrection if any part of the body was alive after death then there could not be a resurrection you can't resurrect something that's alive be it spiritual or physical.
Nobody goes to Heaven when they die otherwise what would be the point of the resurrection it makes no sense.
You talk about the Hebrew and Greek language    But it's widely believed that Jesus spoke and preached in Aramaic if so it means the Greek is a translation of another language how can we be sure it's right.
Those who say  that hell and damnation is a literal place set great store by the parable of the Rich man and the poor man maybe we should look at it a little more closely there are other interpretation as these links will testify.

   http://www.godsplanforall.com/richmanandlazarus
   http://www.mercifultruth.com/lazarus.html

I don't know what denomination or church they belong to I jest think this interpretation is a good one maybe we can look at it and you can tell me whats wrong with it.

 Luk 16:19  There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20  And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21  And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

According to this interpretation the rich man represents the Jews who had received all the blessings of God the law the promises.
The poor man represents the gentiles who were out side of Israel.

Whats wrong with this after all its a parable not literal.

Love and Peace
Dave     

http://www.godsplanforall.com/richmanandlazarus
http://www.mercifultruth.com/lazarus.html

Offline francis drake

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2015, 09:21:40 PM »
Hi
Our bodies do go to the grave where it sleeps waiting for the resurrection if any part of the body was alive after death then there could not be a resurrection you can't resurrect something that's alive be it spiritual or physical.
Nobody goes to Heaven when they die otherwise what would be the point of the resurrection it makes no sense.

I don't think anyone is claiming the physical body is alive after death. The physical body rots in the ground or is burned.

Your idea of soul sleep is not biblical either Dave.
Just as in the story of the rich man and the beggar, there is no period of sleep after death. When we die, our soul is very much awake and goes either to God or otherwise.

The following passage is the story of when the rebellious King Saul consulted the witch of En-Dor. The spirit of the prophet of God Samuel is raised up to speak to the king and rebuke him.
Samuel is obviously very much alive and aware in heaven, not someone just woken out of "soul sleep" to do a job and then put back to sleep for a few more thousand years.

1Sam28v13.....The woman said, ?I see a ghostly figure coming up out of the earth.?
14?What does he look like?? he asked. ?An old man wearing a robe is coming up,? she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
15Samuel said to Saul, ?Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
?I am in great distress,? Saul said. ?The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.?

16Samuel said, ?Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? 17The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors?to David. 18Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me.?

If Samuel's abode was in "soul sleep" and completely unaware of life etc, Saul and his sons could hardly be described as joining him.


The thief on the cross was also given a promise that he would be with Jesus
Luke23v40But the other criminal rebuked him. ?Don?t you fear God,? he said, ?since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.?
42Then he said, ?Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. ?
43Jesus answered him, ?Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.?

If on death the thief was going to join Jesus, how is that possible if the thief was immediately due for soul sleep?

2Corinthians 12v2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know?God knows. 3And I know that this man?whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows? 4was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.
Paul's excursion indicates that heaven is a current fact viable for man's spirit to visit. That would hardly make sense if all previous men simply disappeared on death. Why would God take Paul to an empty heaven?
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2015, 09:47:09 AM »
Hi
Our bodies do go to the grave where it sleeps waiting for the resurrection if any part of the body was alive after death then there could not be a resurrection you can't resurrect something that's alive be it spiritual or physical.
Nobody goes to Heaven when they die otherwise what would be the point of the resurrection it makes no sense.
You talk about the Hebrew and Greek language    But it's widely believed that Jesus spoke and preached in Aramaic if so it means the Greek is a translation of another language how can we be sure it's right.
Those who say  that hell and damnation is a literal place set great store by the parable of the Rich man and the poor man maybe we should look at it a little more closely there are other interpretation as these links will testify.

   http://www.godsplanforall.com/richmanandlazarus
   http://www.mercifultruth.com/lazarus.html

I don't know what denomination or church they belong to I jest think this interpretation is a good one maybe we can look at it and you can tell me whats wrong with it.

 Luk 16:19  There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20  And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21  And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

According to this interpretation the rich man represents the Jews who had received all the blessings of God the law the promises.
The poor man represents the gentiles who were out side of Israel.

Whats wrong with this after all its a parable not literal.

Love and Peace
Dave   


Mankind is a spirit "Pneuma", who has a soul, "Psuche", and lives in a body, "Soma".  at death the body goes to the grave, "Mnemeion" and the spirit/soul either go to hell, "Hades" or heaven. See Lk 16: 22==25. 2 Cor 5: 1--8. Philippians 1: 23. Rev 6: 9. Rev 7: 9--15.
The resurrection means the bodily resurrection into a body fit for either the lake of fire or heaven.
http://www.godsplanforall.com/richmanandlazarus
http://www.mercifultruth.com/lazarus.html
Teaching God's liberating truth

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2015, 09:49:20 AM »
Hi
Our bodies do go to the grave where it sleeps waiting for the resurrection if any part of the body was alive after death then there could not be a resurrection you can't resurrect something that's alive be it spiritual or physical.
Nobody goes to Heaven when they die otherwise what would be the point of the resurrection it makes no sense.
You talk about the Hebrew and Greek language    But it's widely believed that Jesus spoke and preached in Aramaic if so it means the Greek is a translation of another language how can we be sure it's right.
Those who say  that hell and damnation is a literal place set great store by the parable of the Rich man and the poor man maybe we should look at it a little more closely there are other interpretation as these links will testify.

   http://www.godsplanforall.com/richmanandlazarus
   http://www.mercifultruth.com/lazarus.html

I don't know what denomination or church they belong to I jest think this interpretation is a good one maybe we can look at it and you can tell me whats wrong with it.

 Luk 16:19  There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20  And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21  And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

According to this interpretation the rich man represents the Jews who had received all the blessings of God the law the promises.
The poor man represents the gentiles who were out side of Israel.

Whats wrong with this after all its a parable not literal.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Lk 16 isn't a parable, Even if it was, A parable is a, Discourse that proves a Spiritual truth, So either way, Lk 16 is a fact.
http://www.godsplanforall.com/richmanandlazarus
http://www.mercifultruth.com/lazarus.html
Teaching God's liberating truth

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