Author Topic: Did Christ go to Hell ?  (Read 3329 times)

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Online davetaff

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2015, 02:50:38 PM »

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The Hebrew Old Testament word for the "Grave", Is, "Qeber" and the Hebrew word for, "Hell", is, "Sheol". Two different Hebrew words, Two different places.
The New Testament Greek word for the "Grave", is, Mnemeion", and the Greek word for "Hell", is, "Hades", Two different Greek words, Two different places.
Jesus went to hell, Hebrew, Sheol", Ps 16: 10. Not the grave, "Qeber",  Greek, "Hades", not  the grave, "Mnemeion". Acts 2: 27, & v31.

Jesus went to hell, where He suffered, Acts 2: 24, God didn't loose Jesus from the pain of physical death, HE DIED.
But God di loose Jesus from the pains of hell, See Lk 16: 23--25. This is not a fairy story, it's Jesus telling a fact about the afterlife.

We do not sleep when we die, See Lk 16: 19--26. 2 Cor 5: 1--8. Philipians 1: 23.  Rev 6: 9.  Rev 7: 9--15.

Hi jesus4me
I think we have done this before thanks for the language lesson but it don't help me a great deal as it seams academics can find all sorts of interpretations for Hebrew and Greek words an example of what I mean is

 H7585

שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל
she'ôl    she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65
 
Here we have three different meanings for the Hebrew word sheol I prefer to use the word grave then we have scriptures which tell us after death there is no consciousness here are jest a few how would you explain away these.

Ecc 9:10  Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Job 14:12  So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Joh_11:11  These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh_11:14  Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Job_21:32  Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.
Psa_6:5  For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

There are probably more but these will do for now.
The hell of fire and brimstone and eternal torment is from Greek mythology and has no place in Christianity.

Love and Peace
Dave   

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Offline Jesus4me

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2015, 09:44:27 AM »
Hi jesus4me
I think we have done this before thanks for the language lesson but it don't help me a great deal as it seams academics can find all sorts of interpretations for Hebrew and Greek words an example of what I mean is

 H7585

שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל
she'ôl    she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65
 
Here we have three different meanings for the Hebrew word sheol I prefer to use the word grave then we have scriptures which tell us after death there is no consciousness here are jest a few how would you explain away these.

Ecc 9:10  Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Job 14:12  So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Joh_11:11  These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh_11:14  Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Job_21:32  Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.
Psa_6:5  For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

There are probably more but these will do for now.
The hell of fire and brimstone and eternal torment is from Greek mythology and has no place in Christianity.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hebrew Bible scholars say hell is wrongly rendered the "Grave", The Hebrew word for Grave, is, "Qeber", whereas the Hebrew word for Hell, is "Sheol".
The Greek word for "Hell is, "Hades", and the Greeek word for the "Grave", is, "Mnemeion". Two different Hebrew and Greek words, two different places.

The meaning of, "Sleep", [As in death], is, because a dead body is likened to a sleeping person at rest.
The soul doesn't sleep when a person dies. Lk 16: 23--25. 2 Cor 5: 1--8.   Philippians 1: 23. Rev 6: 9. Rev 7: 9--15.
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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2015, 03:31:08 PM »
Hi Jesus4me
lets forget about the sleep word for now and lets look at these two verses.

Ecc 9:10  Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
 Psa 6:5  For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

It seams to me quite obvious that in the grave there is no life whatsoever man dose not have a living spirit except for the spirit of Christ in believers and that spirit returns to Christ at death.
When God made Adam

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

A living soul is not the same as a living spirit soul only means person if we had a spirit how could God say you shall surely die to Adam spirit beings can't die that why the spirit beings before Noah where locked away.
You set great store on translation of the Greek and Hebrew I have done a bit of googling and it seam there are no end of translations many of them saying you are wrong it seams in many of the newer translations the word hell dose not appear at all the academics wrong.
If you are right about hell being fire and brimstone I would prefer to go there at least I would be with people I love and who love me and we could comfort one another.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline francis drake

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2015, 09:49:21 PM »
It seams to me quite obvious that in the grave there is no life whatsoever man dose not have a living spirit except for the spirit of Christ in believers and that spirit returns to Christ at death.

This is way off course Dave.
Have you not read the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke16.
19?There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man?s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22?The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham?s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ?Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.?

25?But Abraham replied, ?Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.?

27?He answered, ?Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.?

All men are born as tripartite beings with human body, human soul, and human spirit. Unless the man is born again as Jesus told Nicodemus, his human spirit will be dead or unregenerate, and alienated from life with God. When he dies, his human spirit will be excluded from the presence of the Lord, just like the rich man in the story of Lazarus the beggar.

Quote

When God made Adam

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

A living soul is not the same as a living spirit soul only means person if we had a spirit how could God say you shall surely die to Adam spirit beings can't die that why the spirit beings before Noah where locked away.
Adam was a tripartite being, but when he sinned, his spirit became a dead spirit. ie. His spiritual relationship with God died. At that point Adam was still a tripartite being, only now his spirit was like the rebellious spirits (demons), an enemy of the Lord.
Humans in some senses are like the angels or demons, except in addition they have a physical body which anchors them to earth, until the physical body malfunctions and "gives up the ghost"!

The heavenly realm is inhabited by two completely different sets of beings.
A) The living spirits, angels and other Heavenly beings who serve God.
B) The dead spirits, Satan and his demonic horde.

Quote

You set great store on translation of the Greek and Hebrew I have done a bit of googling and it seam there are no end of translations many of them saying you are wrong it seams in many of the newer translations the word hell dose not appear at all the academics wrong.

It doesn't matter a jot what the name is in Hebrew or Greek, you can call it Disneyland if you like. No matter what the name, the description of what it is like for the rich man should be enough to warn anyone off.
Quote
If you are right about hell being fire and brimstone I would prefer to go there at least I would be with people I love and who love me and we could comfort one another.

Love and Peace
Dave

Do you really believe that living in eternal condemnation with your dead friends would be a more loving environment that eternal life with the God of love?
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Amadeus

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2015, 09:57:36 PM »

Rom 10: 7, says Jesus descended into the deep, (The place of the dead). And Eph 4:  9  says Jesus desended into the  lower parts of the earth. The Greek meaning  is, the underworld,  the place of the departed spirits
And Acts 2: 27,  tells us that place was hell, Greek  (Hades). The same Greek word for hell I  Lk 16: 23--25.
The "earth" is simply the little lump of flesh which is formed into our natural bodies. Jesus had one as well. He came way "down" (figuratively if not literally) to be bound by a piece of flesh with all the temptations to which even his flesh was subject.

Yes, Jesus went to the hell when he left the higher realm of the Father to preach to mortal men who walked on planet Earth. The "hell" is within man. Jesus came to make a Way for man to get out and into Life. First he overcame his own little hell.

Offline Jesus4me

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2015, 11:49:11 AM »
Hi Jesus4me
lets forget about the sleep word for now and lets look at these two verses.

Ecc 9:10  Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
 Psa 6:5  For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

It seams to me quite obvious that in the grave there is no life whatsoever man dose not have a living spirit except for the spirit of Christ in believers and that spirit returns to Christ at death.
When God made Adam

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

A living soul is not the same as a living spirit soul only means person if we had a spirit how could God say you shall surely die to Adam spirit beings can't die that why the spirit beings before Noah where locked away.
You set great store on translation of the Greek and Hebrew I have done a bit of googling and it seam there are no end of translations many of them saying you are wrong it seams in many of the newer translations the word hell dose not appear at all the academics wrong.
If you are right about hell being fire and brimstone I would prefer to go there at least I would be with people I love and who love me and we could comfort one another.

Love and Peace
Dave


As I have said, Hebrew Bible scholars say hell is wrongly rendered the grave,  But we don't need to be a Hebrew Bible scholar to know what the original Hebrew word for,
"Grave, or Hell" is. The Hebrew word for the grave, [ As in the place of the dead], is, "Qeber, or Qeburah", Both the same meaning and place. The place where the dead bodies go.
But the Hebrew word for, "Grave" in Eccl 9: 10, and Ps 6: 5. Is, "Sheol", [HELL], The place for the departed spirit/soul, The underworld.

Mankind is a Spirit, [Greek, "Pneuma"], who has a soul, [GK, "Psuche"] and lives in a body, [GK, "Soma"], Three different Greek words, three different parts of man, See 1 Thess 5: 23.  Jesus is a perfect example, His body, [Soma] was in a tomb, Grave, [Greek, "Mnemeion". Matt 27: 57--60. His soul [Psuche] went to hell, Acts 2: 27.
And He commended His Spirit, [Pneuma] to God, Lk 23: 46.

God told Adam, that the day he eat the forbidden fruit, he would die, But he didn't die physically until some 900 years later, But he did die spiritually that same day.
And now everyone is born spiritually dead, [Everyone is, until they get born again], If they do.
Spiritual death isn't cessation of live, It means spiritual separation from God.

You have to watch it when you google, because many people give their own thoughts.
You also need to watch what version of the Bible you read, because many are wrongly translated. It'd best to stay with the original Hebrew and Greek, and the closest Bible version to them.
 
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Offline Jesus4me

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2015, 12:05:21 PM »
The "earth" is simply the little lump of flesh which is formed into our natural bodies. Jesus had one as well. He came way "down" (figuratively if not literally) to be bound by a piece of flesh with all the temptations to which even his flesh was subject.

Yes, Jesus went to the hell when he left the higher realm of the Father to preach to mortal men who walked on planet Earth. The "hell" is within man. Jesus came to make a Way for man to get out and into Life. First he overcame his own little hell.


Hell, "Hades", is the "Underworld, the place of the departed souls", Not the earth, or the flesh.
Jesus was a Spirit, "Greek, Pneuma" Lk 23: 46. who had a soul, "Psuche", Acts 2: 27, and lived in a body, "Soma", three different Greek words, three different parts of man, See 1 Thess 5: 23.
The Greek word for, "Hell", is, "Hades" and the Greek word for "The earth" is, "Ge" [Land] or, "Epigeios", [The terrestrial planet].
But Jesus went to Hell, "Hades", Not, Earth,  "Ge or Epigeios", Acts 2: 27, & v31.
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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2015, 02:41:42 PM »
Hi
Quote
Frances drake said
Have you not read the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke16.

Yes I have read it many times it's a parable and as such there are quite a few interpretations as I see it the rich man is in the lake of fire where unbelievers end up after the resurrection of judgement not the same place as Hell fire and brimstone which dose not exist.
let me ask you this Hitler exterminated millions of people mostly Jew's and if the doctoring of hell fire and eternal damnation is true then God is going to do something far worse and you think that's OK I thought we were talking about the God of Love.
You asked
Quote
Do you really believe that living in eternal condemnation with your dead friends would be a more loving environment that eternal life with the God of love? - See more at:

Lets put it this way imagine you were in heaven and like the poor man you are looking down into hell watching all your loved ones being tormented for ever would this be heaven for you Maybe its Gods idea of prime time TV I only know I want nothing to do with it it's got nothing at all to do with the God I love.

The doctoring of Hell fire and brimstone comes from Greek and roman mythology it has nothing to do with Christianity it's a fairy story implanted in the minds of man by the god of this world satan it's turning people away from God in there droves and for some reason beyond my comprehension many churches are still preaching it  trying to frighten people into loving God you can't get people to love you through fear.
The doctoring of hell is rubbish poppycock balderdash a fairy story a myth to promote it is to do the devils work.
end of rant

Love and Peace
Dave   

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