Author Topic: Did Christ go to Hell ?  (Read 2699 times)

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Offline Rose Anna

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2015, 03:01:39 AM »

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@TJs @Guardian

Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them. Psalm 68:18   quoted the KJV

Ephesians 4:8-10

I dont  know why I didn't see it before but found  1Peter 4:6 but depends on the context here.

Could possibly be connected to Jesus proclaiming to the spirits in prison.

   

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TJ

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2015, 01:39:02 PM »
@TJs @Guardian

Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them. Psalm 68:18   quoted the KJV

Ephesians 4:8-10

I dont  know why I didn't see it before but found  1Peter 4:6 but depends on the context here.

Could possibly be connected to Jesus proclaiming to the spirits in prison.

   


Yes that a really good scripture to bring in here

The Thessalonian believers being concerned about those already dead missing out

Dead could be seen as "dead in sin's

Also those who died before the gospel was preached might loose out

5  but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. verse six : For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.


These believers being dead but not in hell

mmm there is said to be many compartments in hades/death - but no one can run from God


Offline Rose Anna

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2015, 07:57:55 PM »
@TJ'S

The rebuttal against Jesus proclaiming in terms of the gospel is Hebrews 9:27.
Only that could be irrelevant considering everyone is judged, including those on their death bed, like  the thief on the cross.
I think that seeing and knowing how much Jesus came to set captives free is stronger. Like when He walked the earth and as it seems to say in Ephesians 4:8-10 As God does anyway.
I'm not saying I'm wrong or right but just seeking the truth. In my opinion there is too much of  the Jonah syndrome about.  Far too much.

Serenity

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2015, 10:45:55 PM »
What's the Jonah syndrome?

Offline Rose Anna

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2015, 08:19:34 AM »

The Jonah syndrome is when they see the mercy of God being given and would rather see Him  being relentless . Jonah would have rather seen God wipe out Nineveh than to have mercy on them.

God said to Jonah :
 "And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?" Jonah 4:11

Offline Rose Anna

Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2015, 09:09:26 AM »
This could lead to misunderstandings and so it is a risk putting this down. Yet it is exploring the truth, so please dont go jumping. It's for the want of wanting people to be saved.

Do you know something, some of us could  so easily be unforgiving  about other people and not want the best for them.  That is not so, it's searching the truth, for want of seeing people respond to God and to be blessed. What is having all the knowledge and mystery if there is no love. So  this is a plead to stop any potential biting, if you disagree with the  questioning.🐴  :D

It's really not fair to say it's false etc . There is a difference between false doctrine that stems for alternative reasons to not seeking truth. Also who has got it absolutely right. I'd like to know.  Jesus yes but who else on earth.   I  hear lots of people discussing these  things anyway.

I mentioned the different territories that Lazareth and the rich man were in. In reading that, it really does seem that those territories are fixed and in the spiritual realm you cannot pass through. Suggesting that you can't be saved once your body has died.

As said there is a truth and no one can change that. It is imperative for others be saved now, seeing as that is how it appears to be.

So that is either how it is, final at physical death.  Or theres another explaination, that fits with the spirits that Jesus proclaimed to. Where there's the possibility it could be. Or could   just be hopeful thinking. Maybe it's not. It's not worked out in human logic that is indeed known. It's by God's Spirit.  It's a question of getting through the emotional baggage because you really do want to see more opportunities for the unsaved . Or its challenging the church teachings. Maybe we won't know after all the gospel is urgent and should be preached now with the power of God.

Coming back to this question.
Jesus was asked about how is it possible to attain eternal life and it seemed impossible.  That seemed to be the nature of how He convicted people of the hopelessness of their own human efforts and human goodness.  That caused them to probe Him to say "it's impossible for man but possible for God."

Hence it's not what we do for God.  It's what He has done for us.

Yet the religious leaders could not grasp that and He had to approach them only in terms of how they understood, or became aware of their own hopelessness and falseness in the eyes of God.

In that parable it shows the fixed  gulf between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Satan.
Only what I see there is Jesus showing that the rich man still didn't come to terms with His own failings and need for God.

That even when the rich man had everything tangible and intangible to him, he rejected it, because he only saw his own self righteousness and what was important for him.
Admittedly in that selfishness there was concern for his family but not for Lazareth.

That there was the representation there of not ever coming to terms with their own transgressions and failings because of their own pride and not looking to God. Outer darkness gnashing their teeth because they cannot come to terms with their own failings. They are too prideful of their own human righteousness, still in that place. As you also see here on earth.

That gulf was fixed but was it fixed for those who were truly looking to God in that place, in spirit, I wonder.
Like crossing over for us now is impossible but it's possible through what God has done, through Jesus. The narrow path. The only way.

We have a spirit ,soul and body.  God is known through His invisible evidence  in creation and through visible evidence in Christ. 
Therefore the people at the time had everything tangible and intangible for them, to know the risen Lord.

Now over two thousand years and we see scoffers as predicted.  They are like the people at the time of Noah.  I hear many say that you shouldn't be expected to trust something that is not tangible or absolutely known to be reliable to them.


Of course many christians say that's rebellion etc. Only if the losts experiences are that they  can't trust easily, then we need to look at their damaged perception of God. Also look to see how God is merciful and He knows the damage, the  failings and blindness of flesh and blood. As we are called to have humility and gentleness, remembering that we were once blind.  We were forgiven and therefore need to forgive others, with much patience.
 

In those terms I can very well see that there is a possibility to cross over from darkness to light, when you die. They need something tangible to them and so they find this in spirit, without flesh in the way.  Then it possibly becomes clearer to them, that they are in darkness. Seeing how it fits that Jesus proclaimed to the spirits and led captives.scriptures. Ephesians 4:8 1 Peter 3:19-20 1 Peter 4:6  Philippians 2:10 Romans 14:8-9 John 5:25-29

He ascended and His Holy Spirit descended all over the world.

We have  Gods Word and Holy Spirit perceived by spirit. Only the Body of Christ is what needs to be giving the tangible, visible evidence reflecting Christ, to the lost, as well.


Obviously God wants everyone to come to repentance and doesn't want anyone to perish. 2 Peter 3:9
He gets no pleasure in death. Ezekiel 18:32

So why would the crossing over from death to life be any different in the spirit world, to how it is now.  Other then revealing that it doesn't occur when people see their  religion of their own self righteousness as the way.

All I see in the tribulation is fire but as a way of refining and a way of bringing people to repentance. Revelation 9
Like burning sticks snatched from the fire. Amos 4:11

Many respond but some still do not. Revelation 9:20 2 Peter 2:6

 

TJ

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2015, 01:46:30 PM »

The Jonah syndrome is when they see the mercy of God being given and would rather see Him  being relentless . Jonah would have rather seen God wipe out Nineveh than to have mercy on them.

God said to Jonah :
 "And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?" Jonah 4:11

Quote
Jonah would have rather seen God wipe out Nineveh than to have mercy on them.

the heart of man !

greggordon

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Re: Did Christ go to Hell ?
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2015, 05:56:17 AM »
The ancient creeds of the Church clearly comfirm as well as early church fathers that Jesus did descend into death:


I believe in God, the Father almighty,
     creator of heaven and earth;
And in Jesus Christ His only Son our Lord;
     He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit,
          and born of the Virgin Mary,
     He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
          was crucified, died, and was buried.
     He descended to the dead. [in older translations, ?He descended into hell? ]
     On the third day He rose again.
     He ascended into heaven,
          and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
     He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
     the holy catholic Church,
     the communion of saints,
     the forgiveness of sins,
     the resurrection of the body,
     and the life everlasting. AMEN.
?The Apostles Creed

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