Author Topic: Can salvation be lost?  (Read 379 times)

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Edwin

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Can salvation be lost?
« on: December 05, 2014, 04:34:02 PM »

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Can salvation be lost?

These verses are sometimes used to show that salvation can be lost, but this of course is not so.

Subject: Heb Ch 6 vs 4-6,

As the title of this letter indicates, this group of believers were all Jews who had accepted that Jesus was the Messiah, and were as a result being so severely persecuted by the majority of Jews who did not accept Jesus, that they were giving serious consideration to returning back to established Judaism, until such times as opposition had died down, and then return back again to believing in Jesus as before.

This they are told is an impossibility, however, verse 9 is intended to give them encouragement,

First read verse 9 before you read vs 4-6, and you will see that the writer is quite sure that what is referred to in vs 4-6 has not happened, but there is a fear that it might happen.

Verse 9 of course is the verse that is always omitted when critics quote vs 4-6.

Hbr 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hbr 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hbr 6:6 if they fall away,[fn2] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Hbr 6:9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.

Yes but what about "he who endures to the end shall be saved".

Please allow me to add something that often comes up whenever, "O S A S", is under discussion, and there is a reference to Heb 6:4-6, which some interpret as indicating that salvation can be lost.

This of course is not so, because if it were so it would make all the verses that support, "O S A S", untrue, and this cannot be the case, as the Word of God does not disagree with itself, and what's more cannot be made to do so.

The writer is stating at vs 4-6, that this course of action is an impossibility,,, and that is all that is being said here.

I hope that this is of help to you.

Every blessing.

Edwin.



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guest

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Re: Can salvation be lost?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2014, 12:06:31 AM »
"he who endures to the end shall be saved".

does it mean those saved are not saved until the end or is their salvation uncertain

Offline francis drake

Re: Can salvation be lost?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 11:50:58 AM »
"he who endures to the end shall be saved".

does it mean those saved are not saved until the end or is their salvation uncertain

Like most believers, you seem to equate every biblical reference of "saved" or "salvation" as going to heaven when you die. That is not how the Jews see such word, to them "salvation" meant deliverence from Philistine, famine and plague. This fact is demonstrated all the way through the Old Testament where the God of salvation demonstrated what HE meant by such words. Unfortunately today's theologians have stripped these words of their true meaning.
The context of enduring to the end refers to the tribulation period where vast parts of the earth and its population are destroyed and the saints are hunted down. The great evil of that period is immediately halted by the return of Jesus Christ, the second coming! At that time, those believers who remain alive will be saved by his coming, as opposed to those who have already died in the Lord and are already with Him, and who return with him.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Can salvation be lost?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 12:07:05 AM »
Yes salvation can be lost

The lesson is shown to us in bold print with Israel [for as God continued to try to save Israel / Israel continued to rebel  against God's salvation/  "Therefore God's Chosen no longer find or found  salvation" but instead find and found - persecution [look at the history of Israel]

Does  this mean that the chosen  will not be saved... or that they were never chosen..

Look at the book of exodus and find the answer...

I am paralleling this alongside  Healing can it be removed?   @ https://www.1faith.co.uk/?topic=10086.msg69143#msg69143



Of course you realize  that that the "Word is still being written don't you?"

You are being written about in His Word...an active word - that goes on beyond the written word - that we call the "bible"


It seems to be a reoccurring theme with the Apostles as John battles with  bondage  and slavery and Paul battles with the thorn and house bondage and most of the Apostles met with a terrible fate...

They all seemed to lose their salvation....


https://www.1faith.co.uk/?topic=10086.msg69143#msg69143

Offline John

Re: Can salvation be lost?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 07:54:04 AM »

John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father?s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.?

The problem with not beluieving that God is total in control is that one believes that salvation is up to you.

As the verses above say, it is Jesus who gives us salvation and it is Jesus who holds onto us.

If you believe that one can loose ones salvation, given how sinnful we are it follows that if we were responcible for holding on to Jesus we would have let go long ago.

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