Author Topic: My thoughts on Jacob's ladder.  (Read 2016 times)

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Edwin

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My thoughts on Jacob's ladder.
« on: November 19, 2014, 04:25:00 PM »

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My thoughts on Jacob's ladder are as follows

Jacob dreamed of a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

Jesus explains it this way,

"I assure you, most solemnly I tell you all, you shall see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man!"
 
John 1:51, were addressed to Nathanael, as can be seen from my comments on this passage of Scripture below.
 
Subject: The rapid conversion of Nathanael
 
Jhn 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, "We have found Him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets, wrote--Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."
Jhn 1:46 And Nathanael said to him, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" Philip said to him, "Come and see."
Jhn 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!"
Jhn 1:48 Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."
Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered and said to Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"
Jhn 1:50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you, 'I saw you under the fig tree,' do you believe? You will see greater things than these."
Jhn 1:51 And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter[fn9] you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man."
 
This is the only time that Jesus ever referred to anyone as an, "Israelite", or used the word, "deceit", translated, "guile", in the King James Bible.
 
The expression, "under the fig tree", is an Hebraic euphemism for, "out door Bible study", or "out door teaching", as the fig tree has the largest leaves of any tree in that part of the world, and, therefore, under it's leaves was the best place to be for contemplation/meditation of Scripture, if you wished to do so out doors, and at the same time be protected from the sun which can be very hot at certain times of the day in Israel.
 
It is clear that this is where Nathanael was at the time when Philip called him, and that he had been thinking about Jacob who's name means, deceitful 4, deceitfully 3, deceit 2, slothful 2, false 1, guile 1, idle 1, slack 1, but as we know this man had his name changed, see.
 
Gen 32:28 And He said, "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel;[fn2] for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed."
 
Footnote:
32:28 Literally Prince with God
 
Nathanael was undoubtedly impressed by Jesus words, when He said, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!", he would no doubt ask himself, "does this man really know that when Philip called me, I was thinking about Jacob?", and, therefore, he asks, "How do You know me?", to which Jesus replies, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."
 
Is it any wonder that Nathanael then said, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"
 
Jhn 1:50 Jesus answered him, "Because I said to you, 'I saw you under the fig tree,' do you believe? You will see greater things than these."
Jhn 1:51 And he said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, [fn] you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."
 
ESV Footnotes:
(1:51) The Greek for you is plural; twice in this verse
 
Our Lords words in verses 50 - 51, are in fact saying, "Not only do I know that you were thinking about Jacob, but I actually know exactly which passage of Scripture it was you had in mind.. The passage of Scripture that we now know today as Genesis Ch 28.
 
Every blessing.
 
Edwin.

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Serenity

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Re: My thoughts on Jacob's ladder.
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2014, 11:47:21 PM »
Do you think only angels go up an down the ladder?

Has me thinking of Enid Blyton's... The Faraway Tree, and all the different lands above the clouds.

And yes, I know the faraway tree is just a story before im told  :rolleyes:

Offline John

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Re: My thoughts on Jacob's ladder.
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 11:47:07 PM »
Its a dream soit does have to represent reality, only to be a picture.
That said there are people moving from here on earth to heaven, those who have died and are Christian will climb that ladder.

TJ

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Re: My thoughts on Jacob's ladder.
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 01:58:11 PM »
Its one of those things that gets me excited - when God speaks through dreams and visions..because its about God in the here and now - speaking to individuals or to a group...

At times God may choose to speak to individuals and at other times to groups of people -

At times God may choose to use an individual and at other times God may choose to use a group of people -

Some days voices can crowd in and words can speak into a person from all sides - and this is where discernment might be needed - as not all voices are from God as "Not all dreams are from God"

I might try to decipher a dream about "tree's chasing me and large cucumbers flying in the sky" - this obviously is simply fears and subconscience thoughts coming up to the surface of a mind...[I cannot tell you the trouble I've had with cucumbers  :lipsrsealed:]

But when God speaks as He spoke to Jacob "it could be said to be a dream or vision" but Jacob knew it was God

I might see this dream as "the ever active angelic visitations of heaven to earth" when heaven touches earth...

It might be seen as the "miracles of God" coming down or the "saints being resurrected through the ages" or "the prayers of Gods people rising up" and as God  sends the answers....

But most of all its represents the Mediator and intercessor who "Is The  Christ"

It also reaffirms the covenant made to  Abraham...

Quite how Jacob saw this dream at this time in history and whether it was also "a revelation to him" seeing not just into the past - but also seeing the future Covenant maker Jesus - (who knows] this dream being in the NT category of  "visions,deams,words,words of knowledge,revelation,prophesy, and  any other gift we would like to associate with 1 Corinthians 12 - and also the gifts of God/Jesus...

Its one of those events where "heaven touches earth"



Serenity

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Re: My thoughts on Jacob's ladder.
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2015, 10:30:26 PM »
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Its one of those events where "heaven touches earth"

So could it be where your spirit goes up to heaven or heaven comes down to meet yours? 
Like can you go up it as much as heaven come down it.

TJ

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Re: My thoughts on Jacob's ladder.
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2015, 03:28:16 AM »
Yes we can touch heaven the same as heaven can touch earth

John wrote about heaven in his 90's, he was a slave in a quarry mine , before this having been dipped in boiling oil and forced to drink poison -John touches heaven and heaven touches earth.

Johns revelation in turn draws others to God a thousand years after his eventual death [all scripture written is inspired by God] hence we are inspired by Johns life and know that he was poisoned and dipped in boiling oil "For a reason"

But what does it matter to us "what age John lived too ?"   John 21:22;  Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."

Thus being a follower - a Disciple [as John was - sharing in His Life]

A type of paradox is it not ? of conflict !


Now see : http://www.1faith.co.uk/articulate/jesus-the-light-of-the-world/msg49642/#msg49642

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I was thinking about this kind of thing last night.

How can it be, that we can live in a true relationship with God, and also live with the enemy pecking at your head all time.  How can both be so apparent in your life.  I suppose in a way picturing the old imagery of the devil on one shoulder whispering in one ear, and an angel on the other whispering in the other.

How can someone's relationship with God be so apparent to others and yet not to yourself.  Not sure how others conversate with God but with myself it is generally in my mind.  The way I write on here is not how I talk in life, but that doesn't mean my relationship with God is false.  My relationship with God 'in life' is more shown through how I am in life, ie how I speak with others, help others who need help, what job I do, how I treat others etc etc...my life is more to do with actions than words.

Anyway haul my brain back in, so we can have both, or do have both influences in our lives, as well as self.  Its the self that chooses which voice to listen to, problems arising in this, is if 'self' is damaged by life.

With satan/demons/darkness do we think they are more powerful than God? is darkness more powerful than light? where there is light, light will always win. - See more at: http://www.1faith.co.uk/articulate/jesus-the-light-of-the-world/msg49642/#msg49642


It seems that the enemy  was pecking at Johns life - being threatened with poisoning and burning oil..being made a slave of Rome on an isle for mining with taskmasters [sense of Moses here] John was to be old and made to endure so much in his life - yet in a sense heaven touched His life and at the same time his life was touching heaven. 


Why should he end up like this ?

Why did they all ?

Why did Bartholomew end up skinned alive and beheaded  ?

Why was James stoned and clubbed and stoned to death ?

Andrew and Peter crucified upside down ?

Thomas  speared to death ?

James beheaded ?

Matthew burnt to death ?

And so it goes on

What a witness to the world ? to the world they are loosers and not a witness at all !


Kind of goes against the "My body is a temple of the Holy Spirit ?" and books on "Being made whole ?"

Or maybe it was because they were  the early "Church" ? as I am the "Church"



http://www.1faith.co.uk/articulate/jesus-the-light-of-the-world/msg49642/#msg49642

Serenity

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Re: My thoughts on Jacob's ladder.
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2015, 01:02:22 AM »
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Or maybe it was because they were  the early "Church" ? as I am the "Church"

Yes.

TJ

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Re: My thoughts on Jacob's ladder.
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2015, 01:33:01 AM »

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