Author Topic: Another question.  (Read 945 times)

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Offline John

Re: Another question.
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2014, 09:14:13 PM »

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If you read Genesis you'll see Eden had four rivers not the two in Iran and Iraq. You'll also discover that the whole world was destroyed by a global flood, so Eden cannot be in Iraq.

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Offline francis drake

Re: Another question.
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2014, 11:19:17 PM »



So you would ay that "Eden was not a literal place ?"

Was not Eden a place on earth from whence Adam and Eve were evicted ?

which I think now is called "Iraq" !

therefore rather than filling an area of the earth- they could fill the earth

I might be mistaken  knit:

You misunderstand me, as I certainly believe that Eden was a real place.

The Garden of Eden is the same as "Paradise", which simply means the "Garden". There can only be one Garden/Paradise in the frame of reference of the second Adam, and that is the garden of God that the first Adam was separated from.
Now, although we generally consider Heaven to be up in the sky, I suspect that most people better consider it to be more like a different dimension, rather than a geographic location somewhere else. Otherwise how could Jesus go around proclaiming that the kingdom of Heaven is close at hand, when it is somewhere else?
?
Ephesians2v5.... even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,


So here we are seated with Him, in the Heavenly places in Christ Jesus. You cannot get clearer than that, you and I are seated in the Heavenlies, yet you walk around on earth. How can we be in two places at once, unless they represent different dimensions of the same place. My redeemed spirit functions in the heavenlies, but my flesh still only sees earth!
As we walk close to the Lord, sometimes we get a breakthrough between one and the other. That is how we get the testimony of the heavenly realm, or get called from one dimension to the other as Paul clearly did.

As God had forewarned him, when Adam decided that his own knowledge of good or evil was all he needed to rule over the planet, he was simply putting to death his spiritual life.
That is the reverse of what we are called to do, crucify the flesh. Effectively, in heeding Satan, Adam crucified his spirit!
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

TJ

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Re: Another question.
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2014, 01:37:59 AM »
Interesting

Yes so referring to this topic and question - when God said in

Genesis 1:28  God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.
Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."


Do you believe He was referring to Eden where Adam and Eve were at that point or do you believe that God meant this
to mean a future state or  condition  ?

In other words could children be born before the skins were given by God ? in Genesis 3:21

[I'm adding a metaphor here]  in that the reason why Adam and Eve did not bear children until a long time after
"the command" was that in order to bear children we must first have the blood shed - as in comparing Matthew 28:19;
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
as in "this is more so referring to after the resurrection....

So the aim of my ramblings might be to answer the question at hand

Quote
Why, I wonder did it take them a 100 years before they obeyed His first command to them.

Edwin. -

by implying that Adam and Eve could not do as
commanded until the right "season"

Offline francis drake

Re: Another question.
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 10:25:29 PM »
Interesting

Yes so referring to this topic and question - when God said in

Genesis 1:28  God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.
Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."


Do you believe He was referring to Eden where Adam and Eve were at that point or do you believe that God meant this
to mean a future state or  condition  ?

In other words could children be born before the skins were given by God ? in Genesis 3:21
Absolutely yes, children could have been born in Eden prior to the fall. Otherwise God is a liar. Don't forget all the animals would have been reproducing.
Quote
[I'm adding a metaphor here]  in that the reason why Adam and Eve did not bear children until a long time after
"the command" was that in order to bear children we must first have the blood shed - as in comparing Matthew 28:19;
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
as in "this is more so referring to after the resurrection....

So the aim of my ramblings might be to answer the question at hand

by implying that Adam and Eve could not do as
commanded until the right "season"
TJ, you are gonna have to do a better job of explaining what you mean. I cannot see what Matt28v19 has to do with anything here.

Don't forget, God separated earth from Eden, but that will be reversed when Eden and the Holy City shall descend at the second coming, so that the dwelling place of God, and His throne shall be once again on earth.
Those who pass through the Tribulation, and remain till he comes shall be the ones who repopulate the restored earth. ie. reproduce and have children.
Those who have previously died in the Lord, or been raptured before the Tribulation, will also descend with Christ and will thus reign with Him from the Holy City.

Thus if people will be reproducing in the future earthly kingdom of God, they could have also reproduced in the original earthly Kingdom of God.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

TJ

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Re: Another question.
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2014, 01:20:47 AM »
O I'm just clarifying things in my mind and learning as I go along

You see in my mind if Eden was a spiritual thing in a literal world {and I know people who believe that Eden is purely spiritual and genesis is merely symbolic or metaphorical]

Then what of the new earth and the heavens as in Matthew 22:30; At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven

In this Edenic state we will be married to God and all will be as one John 17:21;   and their shall be no more children - hence  Matthew 28:19

thus the heavenly state or condition would be one as Eden [paradise garden - new earth - new jeruselam]

no need to reproduce  Galatians 3:28  [created in His image] There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


regenerated condition, sustained totally [ as it was in the beginning so it is in eternity]

Quote
but that will be reversed when Eden and the Holy City shall descend at the second coming, so that the dwelling place of God, and His throne shall be once again on earth.


why would Adam and Eve need to reproduce "children" as they were in marriage with God and could not die [literally]

Offline francis drake

Re: Another question.
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 01:31:45 PM »
O I'm just clarifying things in my mind and learning as I go along

You see in my mind if Eden was a spiritual thing in a literal world {and I know people who believe that Eden is purely spiritual and genesis is merely symbolic or metaphorical]

Then what of the new earth and the heavens as in Matthew 22:30; At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven

In this Edenic state we will be married to God and all will be as one John 17:21;   and their shall be no more children - hence  Matthew 28:19

thus the heavenly state or condition would be one as Eden [paradise garden - new earth - new jeruselam]

no need to reproduce  Galatians 3:28  [created in His image] There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

As I said before, Adam and Eve were commanded to reproduce whilst in Eden. See below.
However your reference to Matt is also correct that we shall have resurrection bodies and be like the angels. There is however another class of people, those unbelievers who having rejected Christ were not raptured prior to the Tribulation. They suffer the seven years of wrath visited upon the earth. Those who endure and remain till the end will be saved (delivered) at the second coming of Jesus to the earth, this time not as suffering servant but as King. We shall descend with Christ, to reign with him.
Over whom do we reign?
We reign over the earth as it is repopulated by the survivors of the Great Tribulation.
Quote
regenerated condition, sustained totally [ as it was in the beginning so it is in eternity]


why would Adam and Eve need to reproduce "children" as they were in marriage with God and could not die [literally]
TJ, I fail to see why you have a problem with this.
Gen1v28God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
God made samples of all creatures and commanded those creatures to multiply.
God also gave the command to Adam and Eve to multiply and fill the earth.
If Adam and Eve had not reproduced, then it would have deprived their Heavenly Father of billions of children.

Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

TJ

  • Guest
Re: Another question.
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2014, 01:52:10 PM »
yup not a problem...but I'm trying to answer the question,

It would seem that Adam and Eve did not have children until after the fall


or maybe I'm wrong  :angel:

Offline francis drake

Re: Another question.
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2014, 02:05:43 PM »
yup not a problem...but I'm trying to answer the question,

It would seem that Adam and Eve did not have children until after the fall


or maybe I'm wrong  :angel:
I believe you are right.

 :thumbs_up:
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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