Author Topic: Faith-Q - Can a Christian who has turned away from Christ and does not repent be saved ?  (Read 784 times)

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Offline Disciple

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Can a Christian who has turned away from Christ and does not repent be saved ?

Can a Christian who has turned away from Christ and does not repent be saved ?

Source: Can a Christian who has turned away from Christ and does not repent be saved ?




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Offline francis drake

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Can a Christian who has turned away from Christ and does not repent be saved ?

Can a Christian who has turned away from Christ and does not repent be saved ?

Source: Can a Christian who has turned away from Christ and does not repent be saved ?



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If someone is born from above, by the Spirit of God, then he is eternally a son of God.

Should he rebel against God's will whilst still alive on earth, that does not make his eternal sonship suddenly disappear. If a man's righteousness and sonship depended on his perfect obedience to God, then we are back to works based salvation. ie. our eternal state depends on us not God!

However, bearing in mind that salvation was never meant to be just heaven when you are dead, then his state of salvation on earth would be compromised. By that I mean that (notwithstanding his eternal inheritance) he would be living in God's disfavour and would forego any earthly blessings/salvation from God whilst he rebelled. He would have no protection from Satanic captivity and persecution.

That's why Paul talks about handing over the unrepentant fornicator in the Corinthian church to Satan.
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Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Alien-R

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If someone is born from above, by the Spirit of God, then he is eternally a son of God.

Should he rebel against God's will whilst still alive on earth, that does not make his eternal sonship suddenly disappear. If a man's righteousness and sonship depended on his perfect obedience to God, then we are back to works based salvation. ie. our eternal state depends on us not God!

However, bearing in mind that salvation was never meant to be just heaven when you are dead, then his state of salvation on earth would be compromised. By that I mean that (notwithstanding his eternal inheritance) he would be living in God's disfavour and would forego any earthly blessings/salvation from God whilst he rebelled. He would have no protection from Satanic captivity and persecution.

That's why Paul talks about handing over the unrepentant fornicator in the Corinthian church to Satan.

Quote
If someone is born from above, by the Spirit of God, then he is eternally a son of God.

Yes I think you've touched on it there as John 6:66; states "Many disciples turned away at this point having believed  and maybe even baptised by John or baptised" [believe and be baptised] Mark 16:16; however we see many verses that state simply believe John 3:18; as Abraham believed and it was credited to him as righteousness, however as Noah believed God and built the ark [a type of Christ] yet no man builds a house unless the Lord is the builder Psalm 127:1; and this is where we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us Philippians 4:13; because we are working in something that the Lord is building or doing.

Note the differences between Mark 16:16 and John 3:18 ?

And we draw from a previous post eg:

In this Gods perfect will says " God desires all men to be saved and to come to  the knowledge of the truth"

Yet Gods Sovereign will states  " no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day"

And we go back to  ["John 6:66; states "Many disciples turned away at this point having believed"]

These disciples had  put belief into action and we could say "they built an ark"

whether it was the Lords ?


Offline John

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The key to this is, were they christians in the first place and what is meant by turning away from Christ?

We know from our own lives that our zeal/love for Jesus runs hot and cold, we have periods when we don't live for him, yet we come to our senses and repent of this .
There are Christians who go further in turning away from God, I was thinking of John Newton's friend the poet and I've forgotten his name !!! He following John Newtons departure from Olny, spent the rest of his life with out attending church, bible reading or prayer. Yet John Newton never doubted the sencerity of his faith or his conversion to Christianity.

Ultimatly we can only judge by what we see and it will only be in eternity that we will see if our judgement of someone elses Christianity is correct.

Alien-R

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The key to this is, were they christians in the first place and what is meant by turning away from Christ?

We know from our own lives that our zeal/love for Jesus runs hot and cold, we have periods when we don't live for him, yet we come to our senses and repent of this .
There are Christians who go further in turning away from God, I was thinking of John Newton's friend the poet and I've forgotten his name !!! He following John Newtons departure from Olny, spent the rest of his life with out attending church, bible reading or prayer. Yet John Newton never doubted the sencerity of his faith or his conversion to Christianity.

Ultimatly we can only judge by what we see and it will only be in eternity that we will see if our judgement of someone elses Christianity is correct.

Yes I think your right, John

Looking at someone else's ark is the easy bit, tearing it down even easier, much harder to help them rebuild it.Philippians 3:13


Offline francis drake

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The key to this is, were they christians in the first place and what is meant by turning away from Christ?

We know from our own lives that our zeal/love for Jesus runs hot and cold, we have periods when we don't live for him, yet we come to our senses and repent of this .
There are Christians who go further in turning away from God, I was thinking of John Newton's friend the poet and I've forgotten his name !!! He following John Newtons departure from Olny, spent the rest of his life with out attending church, bible reading or prayer. Yet John Newton never doubted the sencerity of his faith or his conversion to Christianity.

Ultimatly we can only judge by what we see and it will only be in eternity that we will see if our judgement of someone elses Christianity is correct.

We have to presume that they were christians in the first place otherwise the question is nonsense. However that doesn't stop christians still fearing for their eternity when there are so many preachers out there who use such threats to put the saints in bondage to their performance based christianity and legalism!

The prodigal son had his father's DNA etc within his body. Leaving home, and enjoying the wine, women, and song, plus finally the pigswill, did not alter for one second the father's DNA in his body.
The prodigal was born a son of his father, lived a son of his father, and subsequently died a son of his father. Even if he had changed his name and appearance he would still have been a son of his father.

Likewise the sons of our Heavenly Father. We have his spiritual DNA flowing through this body. It is the new birth of the spirit alone which makes us sons of the most high.
No amount of following rules or going to church will ever replicate what God wants to do within us, done freely at his own cost not ours.

John1v12. But as many as received him to them he gave power to become the children of God, even to them who believed on his name.
v13Who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of the man, but of God.


John5v24. Verily verily I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life and shall not come unto judgement, but has passed from death unto life.

The last scripture is so amazingly profound. It completely repudiates those who insist that we could lose our eternal position.

Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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John5v24. Verily verily I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life and shall not come unto judgement, but has passed from death unto life.

The last scripture is so amazingly profound. It completely repudiates those who insist that we could lose our eternal position.

I agree with this.  Far too much scaremongering to be of any use to people at times when churches and preachers etc pedalling bondage and guilt. 

Offline John

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"We have to presume that they were christians in the first place otherwise the question is nonsense. - "
Why do we have to presume they were christian? We are talking about people who have walked away from everything that is christian. A man who is in love with his wife does not walk away fron his marriage, in the same way a christian does not walk away from his/her saviour.

I cannot comprehend how anyone can imagine that once they have been saved by Jesus's death and resurection that God will allow that person to walk away. The example Paul used was of adoption into a powerfull and wealth family of someone who has nothing. and the question is asking would this adopted son abandon every thing they have gain by that adoption.

It also assumes that we have a measure of control over our salvation. If salvation is all of God, if Jesus hold those who are his in his hand, who imagines that they could leave christianity. Only those who were never part of it.

 

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