Author Topic: Faith-Q - Do all religions point to God?  (Read 712 times)

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Re: Faith-Q - Do all religions point to God?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2014, 12:39:47 PM »
Saying the words "in the name of Jesus" doesn't put the speaker "in the name of Jesus". Any barroom drunk can invoke the name of "Jesus" with his physical mouth. What God means by "in the name" is, I believe, quite a bit different. When two or three are gathered together really "in his name" then Jesus really is right there in their midst and they (the ones "in his name") know it. Will others who are physically present but NOT really "in his name" recognize the presence of Jesus? Perhaps not...

Yes thats the core of what I've been putting across   :D

I cannot find a reference in the OT about two or three except for Psalm 82:1; Malachi 3:16; Exodus 18:12; Exodus 24:5; , which is uneven numbers.

The Godhead was always there as three and the Godhead were always in agreement ! but the blood of goats and bulls never took away the sin of a brother , as this had already been put into place within the agreement between the Godhead  : see The Eternal Covenant

A good example of "two or three in my name" might be  Exodus 18:21; Deuteronomy 1:15; where you have commanders of tens and fifties, hundreds and thousands. Judging before God as to disputes within the peoples.

Whether God was with the people who had "gone against His laws and at the same time passing His judgement upon them through the Judges ! . I suppose though the law of the land may still condemn - God in His mercy may have already forgiven a repentant heart. Therefore one sentenced and condemned - may be released and set free by God , while still being under sentence by the law.

In this case we might conclude that "the sentence imposed upon a person "from the two or three" may not lead to God, but assign a person to be condemned before the people, this can be said to "lead to repentance" but either way the person still serves the sentence.

I suppose in reflection "A Judge" not having Jesus as the Head may not point to God, in as much as "all governments are put there by God, but not all governments have God as the Head, but rather are allowing Gods purposes to run their course - eg : in one country you may have your hands cut off for stealing - in another it may be passed aside. In one country you may be murdered for publicly worshiping Jesus yet in another its seen as tradition.

In some cases religion is behind the Judgement and so I would say that "some things do not point to God but rather the reverse"

to "simply believe" the Judgement" is from God - is wrong in some cases

Cults can be formed  from this kind of thing , where a distorted view of God is put into place

A religion of "helll fireeee and burn or repent" may no more serve to point to God but rather push people away

Therefore I have to conclude that "Not all things point to God" or should I say "Draw to God"

Offline Amadeus

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Re: Faith-Q - Do all religions point to God?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2014, 12:14:20 AM »
On the 2 or 3 consider the following verses OT and NT, which I gathered together during a Bible study I once did  which as you see consider both negative and positive agreements:

"Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?

And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken." Ecc 4:11-12

Then consider 1) alms plus 2) prayer plus 3) fasting

"Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward." Matt 6:2

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." Matt 6:6

"But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly." Matt 6:17-18

And here we the effect, I believe, of the agreement of more than one on something:

"And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass." Gen 41:32

"One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established." Deut 19:15

"He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:" Heb 10:28

Failure to agree will not have a good result:

"Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh." James 3:10-12

Here we see God's people splitting their allegiance between God's Way  and the ways of men (their own gods):

"So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places.

They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence." II Kings 17:32-33

The following tells of 2 joined together, NOT in his name, but for an evil purpose:

"And it came to pass after these things, that Naboth the Jezreelite had a vineyard, which was in Jezreel, hard by the palace of Ahab king of Samaria.

And Ahab spake unto Naboth, saying, Give me thy vineyard, that I may have it for a garden of herbs, because it is near unto my house: and I will give thee for it a better vineyard than it; or, if it seem good to thee, I will give thee the worth of it in money.

And Naboth said to Ahab, The LORD forbid it me, that I should give the inheritance of my fathers unto thee.

And Ahab came into his house heavy and displeased because of the word which Naboth the Jezreelite had spoken to him: for he had said, I will not give thee the inheritance of my fathers. And he laid him down upon his bed, and turned away his face, and would eat no bread.

But Jezebel his wife came to him, and said unto him, Why is thy spirit so sad, that thou eatest no bread?

And he said unto her, Because I spake unto Naboth the Jezreelite, and said unto him, Give me thy vineyard for money; or else, if it please thee, I will give thee another vineyard for it: and he answered, I will not give thee my vineyard.

And Jezebel his wife said unto him, Dost thou now govern the kingdom of Israel? arise, and eat bread, and let thine heart be merry: I will give thee the vineyard of Naboth the Jezreelite.

So she wrote letters in Ahab's name, and sealed them with his seal, and sent the letters unto the elders and to the nobles that were in his city, dwelling with Naboth.

And she wrote in the letters, saying, Proclaim a fast, and set Naboth on high among the people:

And set two men, sons of Belial, before him, to bear witness against him, saying, Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die.

And the men of his city, even the elders and the nobles who were the inhabitants in his city, did as Jezebel had sent unto them, and as it was written in the letters which she had sent unto them.

They proclaimed a fast, and set Naboth on high among the people.

And there came in two men, children of Belial, and sat before him: and the men of Belial witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died.

Then they sent to Jezebel, saying, Naboth is stoned, and is dead.

And it came to pass, when Jezebel heard that Naboth was stoned, and was dead, that Jezebel said to Ahab, Arise, take possession of the vineyard of Naboth the Jezreelite, which he refused to give thee for money: for Naboth is not alive, but dead.

And it came to pass, when Ahab heard that Naboth was dead, that Ahab rose up to go down to the vineyard of Naboth the Jezreelite, to take possession of it." I Kings 21:1-16

Even if there are two persons they need to be Not two minds, but of One:

"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." James 4:8

"Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses." I Tim 5:19

"This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." II Cor 13:1

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20


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Re: Faith-Q - Do all religions point to God?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2014, 11:42:37 AM »
Deuteronomy 19:15 thats the one :D

Yes coveting a neighbors possessions eg : Ahab wants what  Naboth has

The ten commandments merely pointing out the things already happening as per "Beelzebub the accuser" wanting to be God before man was formed from the dust" coveting that which did not belong to him

Good true story of the three people one - Naboth the rightful owner verses Jezebel and Ahab..................In the book of Kings

Ahab would give a better place Matthew 4:9; and Naboth refused in 1 Kings 21:6; - Luke 4:8;

Thus unfair Justice and penalty was brought against Naboth and he stood accused and put to death

The three being of unequal scales, Jezebel ,Ahab and Naboth

Here Naboth was accused and punished Genesis 3:15; Isaiah 53:4;

Two men testified against Naboth and gave false testimonies 1 Kings 21:13 - Mark 14:56

And so they took Naboth outside of the city and stoned him Acts 7:58;

Yes Naboth a "type of Christ" accused and mistreated and a criminal,

Even those who would inherit Naboth's possessions were also put to death so that those who  followed as heirs would not inherit the [earthly] vineyard and estate 2 Kings 9:26; but we are not surprised as those who are not warned 1 Peter 4:12;

Matthew 12:25; where a kingdom divided is brought to desolation as it cannot stand as "One" Psalm 2:2; therefore the kingdom of the world must become the Kingdom of our Lord Psalm 82:8;

Good example of "Headship" where - the headship of one accuses the Headship of another

Good example of "pointing to Christ" where the actions of others do not

Good example of "authority of misjustice"

Good example of "Where two or three are gathered" Mark 14:55; in this case Jesus was there present and being accused falsely - therefore although Jesus is there - it does not equate that He is behind the decisions, but is using them to bring about His good purposes within His sovereign will.

And God demonstrating through the story of Naboth what would happen in the future , but which had already happened in the past before time existed - that Jesus would leave the land to tenants Matthew 21:33; "The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.

Offline Amadeus

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Re: Faith-Q - Do all religions point to God?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2014, 11:38:15 PM »
The story of Naboth is so rich and so true and so sad. It is really no wonder that "Jesus wept".


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