Author Topic: Can God Violate Our Free Will?  (Read 1377 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TJ

  • Guest
Re: Can God Violate Our Free Will?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2015, 01:23:42 AM »

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
No everyone has a chance , be it seven times or seventy times seven Matthew 18:22


Ooooppss  - that's a violation of our thinking....

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Offline francis drake

Re: Can God Violate Our Free Will?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2015, 07:34:54 AM »
No everyone has a chance , be it seven times or seventy times seven Matthew 18:22


Ooooppss  - that's a violation of our thinking....
TJ, you'll have to explain. I see absolutely nothing here that adds to the conversation, or violates our thinking.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

TJ

  • Guest
Re: Can God Violate Our Free Will?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2015, 01:39:42 AM »

TJ, you'll have to explain. I see absolutely nothing here that adds to the conversation, or violates our thinking.



Ok I am accountable and so I am answerable for my post

Well firstly lets look at the definition of "Violate"


Quote
Break or fail to comply with (a rule or formal agreement): they violated the terms of a ceasefire
More example sentences

Synonyms
1.1Fail to respect (someone?s peace, privacy, or rights): they denied that human rights were being violated


Synonyms
2Treat (something sacred) with irreverence or disrespect: he was accused of violating a tomb
More example sentences

Synonyms
3Rape or sexually assault (someone).http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/violate


 
A synonym is a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language.



Now lets look at a paraclete/parallel - scripture in Genesis 4:24 If Cain is avenged seven times, then Lamech seventy-seven times.


The charismatic might suggest that we are in a potential state of forgiveness - hence we have a Spirit of forgiveness -
that forgives as it happens...hence "God forgave you before you sinned"

However without repentance this is wrong..as we do not forgive a brother without repentance - for if we did or do - then
we would be in continuous forgiveness no matter what our brother does or continues to do [does that make sense ?]


To continue to forgive a brother or sister without a change is not biblical [violation]

And yet the seventh day becomes the seventy

"And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family. A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed. For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field. In the year of this jubile ye shall return every man unto his possession."

Now I'm drawn to the year of Jubilee in Leviticus 25:13;  -  Deuteronomy 15:1;

Here debt is redistributed but again this is a metaphor as  Matthew 6:12 explains ...

Herein we see the confusion between OSAS and OSNA - for if God saves "born again" and we continue to sin within this salvation
God will continue to save us ? and this violates our normal thinking [ its beyond our understanding]

For if seventy times seven forgiveness were to be natural in our mortal bodies it would require repentance of the other.

However God forgives  before we sin..................or do we forgive when a brother continues to sin ?  [there is a difference between God's forgiveness and our forgiveness - BUT should there be ? [It goes against our natural inclinations = Violation]

[hope that violation makes sense] and defines the difference  between us and God  ?

Because often times I do not forgive even though the debt is paid already ....and I continue to hold onto things ....because it suits me and does not go against my present [howsyourafather]   old:  whether it be against the Church body as a whole or against individuals - I can hold on rather than letting go



http://www.1faith.co.uk/raise-a-debate/forgive-and-be-forgiven/msg46046/#msg46046





http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/violate
http://www.1faith.co.uk/raise-a-debate/forgive-and-be-forgiven/msg46046/#msg46046

Offline wincam

Re: Can God Violate Our Free Will?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2015, 11:53:51 PM »
we do not have free will and so if we claim we do have free will we condemn ourselves to hell - a warped will is not free - wincam
carpe diem/semper fidelis

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Can God Violate Our Free Will?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2015, 12:13:06 AM »
Of course we have free will.  We have choice.  The bible is quite explicit that we have choice.  We don't condemn ourselves at all.  There is no condemnation for those in Christ.

TJ

  • Guest
Re: Can God Violate Our Free Will?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2015, 12:57:39 AM »
I have a choice in how I respond to this post and I have a choice in how I respond to rubbish that happens in my life

Lets go to the past biblical Exodus in Exodus 16:2 and Numbers 14:2....Psalm 106:25 - and moving forward in time @ 1 Corinthians 10:10;

So here God heard the cries of the people Exodus 2:24; and He answers prayer and carries them in His wings and under the shadow of;

Were their clothes did not wear out [forty years guarantee]  Deuteronomy 29:5; - Exodus 16:3;



The people here moaned because they wanted the rich foods of Egypt ..... there they had food from the Nile and also  beef, sheep, goat, antelope, fish, ibex, gazelles, pork, and deer. ................

Now on their desert walking they were nomads of the desert -  with nowhere to lay their heads......

God did not judge them on the journey He put before them - but on how they reacted to their  journey





TJ

  • Guest
Re: Can God Violate Our Free Will?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2015, 01:09:34 AM »
Now here we see this as an example of the Christian walk and the "promised land" is our home...

The place that we never worked for - with mansions we never built - and vineyards we never planted............

However "that generation  never entered the promised land ? and neither did Moses ?

Now if the promised land is "heaven" [ Garden of Eden - paradise - the new earth] ....

How were God's chosen people "Unborn " ?

Or were these chosen people never "born again"

And was this not a violation of peoples  will ?

The Exodus would happen whatever happened and pharoah would be overthrown.....

God's sovereign Will .............seems to violate theirs ...

Offline francis drake

Re: Can God Violate Our Free Will?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2015, 09:49:46 AM »
we do not have free will and so if we claim we do have free will we condemn ourselves to hell - a warped will is not free - wincam

Please give at least some scripture to back this statement wincam.

Otherwise, completely against my better judgement, I shall have to call you a totally mindless idiot. Having no freewill I can not be blamed for opinions I have no choice over.

If I had freewill, I would certainly like to withdraw that insult, but........
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !