Author Topic: Forgive and be forgiven  (Read 826 times)

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Offline Guardian

Forgive and be forgiven
« on: February 03, 2014, 02:27:38 AM »

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Matthew 6:14 ASV  For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Does that mean that God has unforgiveness towards me if I do not forgive others ?


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Offline francis drake

Re: Forgive and be forgiven
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2014, 08:21:30 PM »
Matthew 6:14 ASV  For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Does that mean that God has unforgiveness towards me if I do not forgive others ?

Before answering this question, it is vital to comprehend what the word translated "forgive" actually means. That comprehension will help make sense of all the scriptures which speak of "forgiveness", and put them in their correct context. In simple terms, the translation of the Greek, into the English word "forgive," is an appalling and misleading error.
In the English language, the word "forgiveness" has major connections to how we feel. Hence when people are advised to forgive someone who has offended them, the response is frequently that they would love to do so, but at the moment they are just too wounded to do it. ie. when they feel better, or sufficiently healed, they will tender that forgiveness. Unfortunately we all fail to realise that forgiveness is not so much about the other person, but about us and setting ourselves free from spiritual bondage.

I have ministered to many believers on the issue of forgiveness, and the hold up revolves so often around their feelings because that is their linguistic understanding of the word. Thus it their feelings or pain, rather than Godly wisdom, that controls their response to the clear command of Jesus to forgive those who have hurt us.

The Greek word for forgive, "aphiemi" has nothing whatsoever to do with how we feel. The word "aphiemi" simply means to release, or to let go, or to send away. It is basically a judicial decision to stop demanding repayment or revenge. We do it so that we can be released from that person or that situation.

To reinforce this, I have pasted below a list taken from the first website I googled.
Quote
"Aphiemi"
to send away
to bid going away or depart
of a husband divorcing his wife
to send forth, yield up, to expire
to let go, let alone, let be
to disregard
to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic) 1c
of teachers, writers and speakers
to omit, neglect
to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
to give up, keep no longer
to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
to leave, go way from one
in order to go to another place
to depart from any one
to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all mutual claims are abandoned
to desert wrongfully
to go away leaving something behind
to leave one by not taking him as a companion
to leave on dying, leave behind one
to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
abandon, leave destitute

When someone offends, robs, attacks or damages us in any way, it is natural to expect restitution or repayment or at least an apology. If in our heart we refuse to let go, then we will remain spiritually tied to that person or situation, right up to the moment we make that statement of letting go of that event or person.

"Lord, I let go of that offense.....I release that person....what he just said to me...etc"

When God says he will not forgive us, it means that he will not release us from that event, suffering, bondage etc. until we let go of it ourselves!!!!!!.
God's forgiveness has nothing to do with punishment, and it has absolutely nothing to do with whether we go to heaven when we die.

God is not being unpleasant or vindictive towards us. It is just that he cannot deliver us from bondage until we agree to let it go. If we have tied ourselves to someone because of offense, it is like we are waiting for recompense. Thus we are now tied to that person's decision to apologise or repay whatever debt.
If an offense was done to us in childhood, and that person has since died, there is nothing we can do to get those years back from that dead offender. Our unforgiveness can therefore tie us to a long dead situation. Unfortunately, because we are so often waiting for that pain to stop, in order to forgive, we remain in that pain and unforgiveness for decades for a healing that will never come. We are tied to a dead man.
Someone once said, "Unforgiveness is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die!"

My advice, is that if you want to experience a new inrush of freedom, then look back at all those offenses that you still hold on to. Tell God that you release them from debt, and experience that new freedom in Christ. God has now released/forgiven you.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Forgive and be forgiven
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2014, 11:06:52 PM »
What a really good reply francis, dont think there is anything i can add to that, you put it really well and understandable, which i'm grateful for as i easily get confused in too much complicated theology.

Offline francis drake

Re: Forgive and be forgiven
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2014, 10:31:12 AM »
What a really good reply francis, dont think there is anything i can add to that, you put it really well and understandable, which i'm grateful for as i easily get confused in too much complicated theology.

Thank you Serenity.
I should have added, from experience, that once forgiveness is pronounced, then we find it is only then that God can start the healing process. In most situations, we saw instant spiritual and emotional healing.
Proverbs18v14. A man's spirit can sustain him during his illness, but who can bear a crushed spirit?

We can attempt everything to heal the body, but until a wounded spirit is healed, the body will remain in suffering. Forgiveness is what heals the human spirit.

But to continue with the terminology of forgiveness, or "aphiemi" and its derivatives, lets look at one topic, divorce.-
It may surprise most so know that the Greek word for divorce is also "aphiemi"!
1Cor7v11. but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce (aphiemi) his wife. 12But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce (aphiemi) her. 13And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her (aphiemi) husband away.?

Lets look at this scripture when translated as the Greek word "aphiemi" is elsewhere.-

11(but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not forgive his wife. 12But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not forgive her. 13And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not forgive her husband away.?

You can see that the use of "forgive" as the translation of "aphiemi", puts the entirely opposite sentiment to what Paul is teaching, and that is why I loath the word forgive as a translation of Aphiemi in any verse of scripture. It stinks and misleads!

I therefore never use the sentimental word "forgive" when I am ministering or teaching on forgiveness. Instead I use any of the following words.-
Forego
let go
release
set free.
When I lead anyone in a prayer statement of forgiveness, it would go something like this. "Father, I release xxxxx of all obligation towards me for what he did. I set him free and release him into your judgement. I no longer demand restitution in my heart. I believe that you have already set me free in what Jesus did for me, and I now choose to walk in that freedom."
You will be truly amazed at the spiritual release that such statements into the heavenly realm creates. And anyone who knows an ounce of spiritual warfare will know that you are not just speaking to God, but to the demons of bondage. Once spoken out, a wise believer will also command the spirits of unforgiveness to depart (aphiemi LOL), and all demons of persecution also to go.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline clark thompson

Re: Forgive and be forgiven
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2014, 11:54:18 PM »
Matthew 6:14 ASV  For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Does that mean that God has unforgiveness towards me if I do not forgive others ?
It means because God forgave you, you need to forgive others.
One day I will be home

Offline francis drake

Re: Forgive and be forgiven
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2014, 10:11:27 PM »
It means because God forgave you, you need to forgive others.

No, you are reversing the sequence of the words, and reversing the meaning.
I am guessing that see the word "forgive" as referring to our eternal state. Thus not being forgiven has worrying eternal consequences. However if we see "forgiven" as meaning "to be set free today", then as I explained above, we can see that God cannot release us from someone we will not let go of!

Thus it is perfectly right to say.-
If you will not let go of (forgive) others who have offended you, then God will not, (cannot) release you (forgive you) from what they have done to you.
Look at what the Greek word translated as forgive actually means, and it will completely alter your understanding of scripture.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Forgive and be forgiven
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2014, 10:34:23 PM »
Have to say I have found what you have wrote so very useful francis, and your reply, I appreciate the way you have laid it out, making it a lot easier to understand.

Question, what if you want to let go, yet find you cant? or is the wanting to let go enough? the rest coming after, whatever length of time it takes?

Offline francis drake

Re: Forgive and be forgiven
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 10:23:04 AM »
Have to say I have found what you have wrote so very useful francis, and your reply, I appreciate the way you have laid it out, making it a lot easier to understand.

Question, what if you want to let go, yet find you cant? or is the wanting to let go enough? the rest coming after, whatever length of time it takes?

Forgiveness is what I call a judicial decision, a stark unsentimental declaration that you have to make for your own good. Yes, emotion is involved, but it must not be allowed to rule that decision. If we want to let go of the offense, then we will do it. Its that simple, just do it,get on with it as soon as possible, even if through gritted teeth! Proclaim it to the heavens so that healing can start.

There is no reason whatsoever, other than bad teaching, that a person cannot forgive, let go, and walk free into God's own healing process. That is our freewill choice.

Alternatively, we can continue looking for recompense or apology from the offender, all of which spiritually chains us to him and his choices.

Take note also, that even for events where there is no clear known person to blame, we must also forgive. ie. if we are victim of a car crash or natural disaster where there is no clear perpetrator, we must also forgive, let go, of that event. Otherwise we will be spiritually tied to that event indefinitely.
How often do we hear people blaming their current unstable depressive state, on some event in childhood, that other have walked away from? Until we stop looking back for that event to be erased, God cannot heal us. Let it go and walk forward with God's healing.

As I have said previously, the English word carries far too much sentimental drivel for us to understand what the scripture actually means. Unless they are taught what the words actually mean, the majority of Christians struggle to let go because they are waiting till they feel sufficiently healed before they can forgive. That rarely happens. The pain continues although the memory might fade a little. The victim remains deeply wounded for the rest of their life, wondering why God never heals the pain. God cannot touch an area that, because we refuse to let go of the offense, is now a closed and sealed area of personality which festers away inside.

Forgiveness, (Ugh, that useless word) might best be described as enlightened self interest.
I think it was Joyce Meyer who said, "Unforgiveness is like drinking poison and then waiting for the other person to die!" I reckon that's one of the best descriptions yet!

The damage that unforgiveness can wreak on someone is truly astonishing. Letting go or washing our hands of our demand for an apology, recompense, restitution, etc. is profoundly healing. The act of forgiveness is primarily about our own personal need to be liberated from what happened.
We also must realise that this is not just about emotional stuff. It is about closing the door to Satanic attack. The reason why people can be so traumatised for years is because those areas of damage can be inhabited by demonic powers. Unforgiveness is what gives demons legal rights of control. Releasing/forgiveness removes that right, and gives God freedom to act. That is why I call it a judicial decision. For that reason I would also advocate that forgiveness has to be pronounced into the heavens. It does not need to be said to the other person, unless they are seeking it also.

Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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