Author Topic: The Church  (Read 1391 times)

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TJ

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Re: The Church
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2015, 01:49:04 PM »

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So why do you peddle the word.
I have given you proof that there are parts of the "Our Father", the we CANNOT pray.
You must be one of those religious people who pray it parrot fashion.
You can call Jesus a liar, and you can say that God is the one who leads un into temptation, But when you stand before God, you will have explain why you called Jesus a liar, and why you said God is the author of temptation.

AS for healing, It's Biblical fact that the reason some people don't get healed, is because they haven't got the faith to be healed.
It's up to us to use faith, so how do we get to use faith. By hearing God's word, Rom 10: 17. We can only have faith for the knowledge that we have.

 :D ....I am/was putting across the general feeling that a lot of people seem to have - about theatrical drama's which I suppose is being fed by television.   :D



Regarding faith ....many times it can be the faith of those "doing" rather than those needing healing.

As we have pointed out may times in past years - it is no good telling someone dieing of cancer "you have not enough faith" [that's like using a shovel instead of a trowel]

I am sure Lazarus being dead had lost his faith and also Jairus' daughter - their  faith was also  dead ?

that is the point I am putting across  :D



Calm down J4me  :D - I am not here to prove anything or to pull anyone down. [ eg : to prove myself or to gain advantage] that is not the spirit of good discussion or learning






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TJ

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Re: The Church
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2015, 01:54:41 PM »
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[1]Christians are ALREADY saved from the second death, as that is for the unbelievers.

[2]Faith can and will stop one from dying, we should live to a good old age, and if we get a sickness that is leading to death, we can use our faith to be healed.

Yes if they are Christ-in = Christian

However a person can perform the outward signs without the inward witness   :D

TJ

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Re: The Church
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2015, 02:02:56 PM »
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Faith can and will stop one from dying,


ah well J4me  :D

I do not want faith to stop me from dieing - I want faith to raise me from the dead ......no that is wrong ?

Jesus does that..

Offline Jesus4me

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Re: The Church
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2015, 04:29:17 PM »

ah well J4me  :D

I do not want faith to stop me from dieing - I want faith to raise me from the dead ......no that is wrong ?

Jesus does that..



If you were dying, you would want the faith to bind the spirit of death and have the victory.
Why be raised from the dead when you don't have to die??.
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Serenity

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Re: The Church
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2015, 04:39:04 PM »
That is what the blood of Jesus is for, the power of the Holy Spirit binding the enemy, or in this case the spirit of death.

However, it wasn't anything to do with Lazarus's faith requesting life over death, death had succeeded, not just minutes or hours, but 4 days, beyond the Jewish tradition of the soul leaving the body after 3 days. 

If it was to do with the receiver's faith in that way, why even ask someone external to lay on hands?
Why doesn't the one needing healing, just lay hands on themselves?
But then, self deliverance and healing is an odd notion to many.

Why have many great teachers/prophets etc...gone on to glory?  why are they still not alive on this planet?

See if it was to do with your faith, then healing would become about you being at the centre of it and not God. 

Didn't Jesus heal an atheist blind man? where was the faith on this man to be the key to his healing?

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Re: The Church
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2015, 05:17:30 PM »
Hi J4ME
Sorry to go back to an old post But it's bean going round in my head hope you don't mind.

The "Our Father" prayer is an Old Testament prayer and there are parts in it that we shouldn't pray, [We certainly shouldn't pray it parrot like as some religions do parrot like as some religions do.
I agree we should not pray like parrots but I do believe we should prau all of it from the heart.

[1]The old Testament prayer, when Jesus told His disciples to pray it, He hadn't died and risen again, and the New Testament didn't come into force until the testator died. Heb 9: 16--17.

Agreed

The "Kingdom came on the day of Pentecost", Jesus told His disciples that they would still be alive when they see the "KINGDOM" come with power, Mk 9: 1. With Acts 1: 4--5, & v8.  Rom 14: 17.

Mar 8:38  Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
 
Mk 9: 1 is a continuation of MK  8: 38  all it means that there would be believers alive at his coming who would not see death and Paul tells us they will be changed.


[2]Lead us not into temptation, God doesn't lead us into temptation, James 1: 13--14.

we are surrounded by temtations on every side all we are asking is that God helps us to resist.

[3]Deliver us from evil, We have been delivered from evil, Col 1: 13. Eph 2: 1--5. And has given us the authority, over evil, Eph 1: 19--23. Eph 2: 6. Eph 6: 10--17.
James 4: 7. 1 Pet 5: 8--9.

Eph 6:10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11  Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14  Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15  And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16  Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

As we see from these verses we  have a great battle to resist the Devil in this evil world and I see nothing wrong in asking the Father for Help

How many people pray, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", and don't believe it. 
There is no sickness in heaven and there is no poverty in heaven, Yet some Christians come against healing and prosperity.
This is true but we are not in heaven yet as for prosperity our Lord said

Mat 19:21  Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

How many Christians pray, "Give us this day", yet haven't got faith enough to receive the blessings of God.

Mat 6:11  Give us this day our daily bread.

I like to think of this as the bread that camr down from heaven
How many Christians pray, "As we forgive our debtors",  yet the can't forgive people. -

Mat 7:1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Love and Peace
Dave

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Re: The Church
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2015, 07:54:17 PM »
That is what the blood of Jesus is for, the power of the Holy Spirit binding the enemy, or in this case the spirit of death.

However, it wasn't anything to do with Lazarus's faith requesting life over death, death had succeeded, not just minutes or hours, but 4 days, beyond the Jewish tradition of the soul leaving the body after 3 days. 

If it was to do with the receiver's faith in that way, why even ask someone external to lay on hands?
Why doesn't the one needing healing, just lay hands on themselves?
But then, self deliverance and healing is an odd notion to many.

Why have many great teachers/prophets etc...gone on to glory?  why are they still not alive on this planet?

See if it was to do with your faith, then healing would become about you being at the centre of it and not God. 

Didn't Jesus heal an atheist blind man? where was the faith on this man to be the key to his healing?


It's to late to have faith once a person is dead, We need faith in this life, And faith can, and will move mountains, Mk 11: 23.
A person can ask another Christian to lay hands on them, as a point of contact, Mk 16: 18.
Laying on of hands is one of the fundamentals of the doctrines of Christ, Heb 6: 1--2.  But it's not the only way to receive healing, I have got the victory over sickness and pain, as they tried to come on me, Just by confessing,

"By the stripes of Jesus I am healed, Isaiah 53: 3--5, [V5], Jesus has taken my infirmities and sicknesses, Matt 8: 17, By Jesus stripes I was healed, and if I was healed, then I am healed".

And it works because it is God's word, In Jeremiah 1: 12, God says He watches over His word to perform it, And in v9, God said He has put His word in Jeremiah's mouth, The word in in our mouth, Rom 10: 8, And as we confess God's word, Jesus is our High Priest of our confession,to bring it to pass, Heb 3: 1.

There are many reason why great men of God have died, and one of those reasons will be a lack of faith.

God and His word and power is at the centre of healing, we only believe and act in faith.
Teaching God's liberating truth

Offline Jesus4me

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Re: The Church
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2015, 08:34:49 PM »
Hi J4ME
Sorry to go back to an old post But it's bean going round in my head hope you don't mind.

The "Our Father" prayer is an Old Testament prayer and there are parts in it that we shouldn't pray, [We certainly shouldn't pray it parrot like as some religions do parrot like as some religions do.
I agree we should not pray like parrots but I do believe we should prau all of it from the heart.

[1]The old Testament prayer, when Jesus told His disciples to pray it, He hadn't died and risen again, and the New Testament didn't come into force until the testator died. Heb 9: 16--17.

Agreed

The "Kingdom came on the day of Pentecost", Jesus told His disciples that they would still be alive when they see the "KINGDOM" come with power, Mk 9: 1. With Acts 1: 4--5, & v8.  Rom 14: 17.

Mar 8:38  Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
 
Mk 9: 1 is a continuation of MK  8: 38  all it means that there would be believers alive at his coming who would not see death and Paul tells us they will be changed.


[2]Lead us not into temptation, God doesn't lead us into temptation, James 1: 13--14.

we are surrounded by temtations on every side all we are asking is that God helps us to resist.

[3]Deliver us from evil, We have been delivered from evil, Col 1: 13. Eph 2: 1--5. And has given us the authority, over evil, Eph 1: 19--23. Eph 2: 6. Eph 6: 10--17.
James 4: 7. 1 Pet 5: 8--9.

Eph 6:10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11  Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14  Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15  And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16  Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

As we see from these verses we  have a great battle to resist the Devil in this evil world and I see nothing wrong in asking the Father for Help

How many people pray, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", and don't believe it.
There is no sickness in heaven and there is no poverty in heaven, Yet some Christians come against healing and prosperity.
This is true but we are not in heaven yet as for prosperity our Lord said

Mat 19:21  Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

How many Christians pray, "Give us this day", yet haven't got faith enough to receive the blessings of God.

Mat 6:11  Give us this day our daily bread.

I like to think of this as the bread that camr down from heaven
How many Christians pray, "As we forgive our debtors",  yet the can't forgive people. -

Mat 7:1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Love and Peace
Dave


[1] We should pray, "Thy Kingdom com", Because it's already here, The whole of the prayer is about this lifetime, Not the coming Kingdom.
Thy will be done ON EARTH.
Give us THIS DAY.
Forgive as we forgive, There will be no one who will sin against us in the coming Kingdom.
Lead us not into temptation. There will be no temptation in the coming Kingdom.
Deliver us from evil. There is no evil in the coming Kingdom.

[2]God DOES NOT lead us into temptation, So we shouldn't pray that. We are going to be tempted, BUT NOT BY GOD.
Matt 6: 13, Doesn't say pray to God to deliver us from temptation, It says, Lead us not into temptation... We are the ones who are fighting the battles against temptation and the evil spirits, And we are the ones who are supposed to use God's armour to be victorious, we are the ones who have to resist.

[3]We do have an enemy, The devil, But Jesus has defeated him for us, 1 Jn 3: 8. and as we resist him, he WILL FLEE. James 4: 7.

If you ask God to help you overcome evil, He will say, "You have the God given authority and power, YOU DO IT".
God has already given us His word, the blood of Jesus, power and authority, the Holy Spirit, Tongues,Anointing and nine supernatural gifts of the Spirit, So why would we need to ask for God to help us.?.

[4]Thy will be done ON EARTH, as it is in HEAVEN, Do you see ant sickness in heaven??, do you see any poverty in heaven??.  NO..NO.. So let God's will be done here and now.
As for, Quote, "go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor", and quote.
If we sold all that we have, God will give us abundantly more then we had before.
Check out all the giving and receiving, sowing and reaping scriptures, And you'll see that the receiving part is ALWAYS IN THE ABUNDANCE.
Teaching God's liberating truth

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