Author Topic: Translation and Interpretation  (Read 1402 times)

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Serenity

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Translation and Interpretation
« on: November 27, 2013, 10:16:50 PM »


Was chatting today about the Bible, and the difference between Translation and Interpretation. 

What was coming out was that Interpretation is not Translation, or specific, ie: KJV, NIV, Vulgate...yet do not translations have interpretations in them, from the people who wrote them, or interpreted them? so really interpretation is not that far distanced from translation. 

It was suggested also that people who follow interpretations, are inadvertantly following satan and leading themselves into death, however we rely on mans translation and interpretations in the physical Bible we use. 

If we are to ask, seek and knock and we will receive, find and have the door opened, why would God let you 'die' if you are honestly, and earnestly seeking His Truth? 

Picking away at not being happy at Jerome's translation into Latin, it stood out to me that even though people aren't happy with Jerome's translating into Latin, taking it away from the original, (with translation you rarely get word for word translates),  people are quite happy to use more recent translations of the Bible, which is inevitably going to have language in it that wasn't around when originally written.

So if the Bible version is that paramount, and leaning on interpretations is that bad, that it elevates you above God, the very act of thinking and talking about the bible and your understandings of it, puts you in a sticky wicket.

When people argue against organised religion in a way that, it in itself creates dogma, i find it difficult to take on board what they are saying, because i see it underlying as hypocrytical.

Alien-R

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Re: Translation and Interpretation
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2013, 12:10:15 AM »
was that a bible study ?

Serenity

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Re: Translation and Interpretation
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2013, 12:16:29 AM »
Yeah on facebook of all places, I never get involved with groups on there like that, but week or 2 back a friend suggested I take a look, so did.  Never posted til today, this particular thread caught my eye so to speak.  ;D

Alien-R

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Re: Translation and Interpretation
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2013, 12:25:19 AM »
Well the bible  scholars interpreted the original  aramaic and greek and then translated into our  language, 

paraphrase being a modern version of the same thing

so in my mind you have to be able to interpret what a sentence is saying and to understand its original context before you can translate it for others to see

A verse can be interpreted in many ways, hence we have metaphors

but the main issue is how we then interpret the translated material that we read and put it into practice   in our ideology and culture and lifestyle

Taking it from a Jewish culture and translating it into an American or British culture in todays modern society

people say "Gods Word never changes"  well that depneds on our own interpretation of what we read as no one person will see the same picture

after all ...to some  its a living Word speaking to us now through the power of the Holy Spirit and speaking directly to us about a specific thing in our own lifes

to another it might be like  a text book

and to another something else


Afterall as its "a living word" then one day God might speak to me through His word about one thing

the next day I might read the same verse and God shows me something quite different

hence to me that word has changed even though "Gods word never changes"

Alien-R

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Re: Translation and Interpretation
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 12:25:48 AM »
Yeah on facebook of all places, I never get involved with groups on there like that, but week or 2 back a friend suggested I take a look, so did.  Never posted til today, this particular thread caught my eye so to speak.  ;D

cool sounds good

Offline Amadeus

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Re: Translation and Interpretation
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 01:21:25 AM »
Was chatting today about the Bible, and the difference between Translation and Interpretation.

Yes I read three different Bible translations regularly. They are not the same, but when I get the differences, that I would interpretation on my part.

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What was coming out was that Interpretation is not Translation, or specific, ie: KJV, NIV, Vulgate...yet do not translations have interpretations in them, from the people who wrote them, or interpreted them? so really interpretation is not that far distanced from translation.

I used to translate documents from other languages to English. I also used to interpret conversations as a 'go between' for two people who did not know each other's language. That was a distinction I made for myself, but without a doubt meaningful connotations for the two do overlap.

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It was suggested also that people who follow interpretations, are inadvertantly following satan and leading themselves into death, however we rely on mans translation and interpretations in the physical Bible we use. 

If we are to ask, seek and knock and we will receive, find and have the door opened, why would God let you 'die' if you are honestly, and earnestly seeking His Truth?

I am definitely with you on this. Different Bible versions can make a difference in some things, but God is always looking at our hearts. He alone is the One that gives a person an increase in understanding of the things that matter to Him... even from the Bible (any language, version, translation, or interpretation.)   

Quote
Picking away at not being happy at Jerome's translation into Latin, it stood out to me that even though people aren't happy with Jerome's translating into Latin, taking it away from the original, (with translation you rarely get word for word translates),  people are quite happy to use more recent translations of the Bible, which is inevitably going to have language in it that wasn't around when originally written.

There may be 'worse' translations or versions, but even from those, can God not feed a hungry heart? Remember Paul's words about speaking in a tongue?

If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church [the church is people rather than a building]; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:27-28

If a teacher or preacher or debater on a forum tells us what he believes, it may well be incomprehensible to us... without an interpretation.

Who is an interpreter? Jesus spoke in parables [an unknown tongue] in public and but gave the interpretation in private to his closest followers. The interpreter could be a preacher or a priest or a minister who reads a Bible verse aloud and then explains it so his listeners can understand. Not everyone will understand or accept his interpretation. Remember again that God gives the increase even when a human minister is conveying a message from God. Not everyone is willing or able to hear what God is saying.


Quote
So if the Bible version is that paramount, and leaning on interpretations is that bad, that it elevates you above God, the very act of thinking and talking about the bible and your understandings of it, puts you in a sticky wicket.

If our purposes are carnal then our result is likely also to be carnal. People who do not eventually in their Bible readings and/or studies come a place where they are being led by the Holy Spirit because they love God [Who or what is truth?], will likely find themselves in delusion.

Atheists read the Bible, but as long as their purpose is wrong the result will probably be the result they expect. Believers who read with the wrong purpose may also find themselves deluded. Consider II Thessalonians 2:10-11.


Quote
When people argue against organised religion in a way that, it in itself creates dogma, i find it difficult to take on board what they are saying, because i see it underlying as hypocrytical.

Arguing with anyone about the things of God is likely to be at the least problematic:

"But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." I Cor 11:16

"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." Titus 3:9

A discussion or a sincere question and answer exchange ideas and beliefs is OK if the purpose of the participants is to learn or to teach and both parties are willing to open their hearts. Remember that only God gives the increase. God may work through us to increase another, but the most logical, eloquent teacher cannot go through a locked door. Even Jesus did not convince everyone who heard him to come over to His Way which most certainly was God's Way.

Efengylwr71

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Re: Translation and Interpretation
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2013, 02:44:19 AM »
Was chatting today about the Bible, and the difference between Translation and Interpretation. 

What was coming out was that Interpretation is not Translation, or specific, ie: KJV, NIV, Vulgate...yet do not translations have interpretations in them, from the people who wrote them, or interpreted them? so really interpretation is not that far distanced from translation. 

It was suggested also that people who follow interpretations, are inadvertantly following satan and leading themselves into death, however we rely on mans translation and interpretations in the physical Bible we use. 

If we are to ask, seek and knock and we will receive, find and have the door opened, why would God let you 'die' if you are honestly, and earnestly seeking His Truth? 

Picking away at not being happy at Jerome's translation into Latin, it stood out to me that even though people aren't happy with Jerome's translating into Latin, taking it away from the original, (with translation you rarely get word for word translates),  people are quite happy to use more recent translations of the Bible, which is inevitably going to have language in it that wasn't around when originally written.

So if the Bible version is that paramount, and leaning on interpretations is that bad, that it elevates you above God, the very act of thinking and talking about the bible and your understandings of it, puts you in a sticky wicket.

When people argue against organised religion in a way that, it in itself creates dogma, i find it difficult to take on board what they are saying, because i see it underlying as hypocrytical.
Serenity, there is absolutely nothing wrong with religion, who ever said there was. No, this is a modern evangelical charismatic notion, which in all truth is not biblically based. Jesus NEVER said there was anything wrong with religion, he merely criticized those who practice religion without having the love of God in them. Notice what Jesus said in his famous rant against the Pharisees.
?Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. Mt 23:23.
So Jesus didn`t criticize them for their religiosity, but rather for practising religion in the wrong manner, without having a heart for justice and mercy, without having a heart for God.
Now any type of Christian can be just as guilty of this. You may have the Christian who follows a ritual based denomination, like Catholic or orthodox churches. And then you have those who are less ritualistic, like the charismatics and modern evangelicals who wave their hands up in the air and cry praises to God aloud. Now they also can go through the motions without an ounce of love for God within them. And so there is little difference in that sense. God is NOT anti religion, where in the bible does it say "It`s not about religion, it`s about relationship" Tell me, where? God never said it, and his son Jesus never said it. If you consider how important modern evangelicals think this distinction between religion and relationship to be, you would think that Jesus would have said something about it, but he didn`t. Like I said, it`s the practice of religion without Godliness that Jesus was against, and nothing more. Look at the religious and ritualistic instructions God gave to Moses from Exodus 25 to 30. Now most modern evangelicals would consider such religiosity as an abomination, and a positive road to hell. But yet it his GOD HIMSELF that gave Moses these instructions. Is God therefore anti religion? Is God dead against ritual? Well if he is, then he has done quite a bit of backtracking. Maybe he realized how wrong he was to give Moses all those silly and needless instructions. Have no doubt, Jesus himself observed the law and the rituals of Israel. Was Jesus wrong to be so religious? No no, it is a modern evangelical attempt to separate itself from what it considers to be a false church, or a false church system. So much so that it actually goes against the bible, and almost adds a new doctrine of "Relationship not religion" When in fact Jesus never said anything  remotely close to that. Of course, we ARE to have a relationship with God, that`s obvious. But some may want to do so "Through" religion, and some may be less inclined to do it so religiously. But to demonize  people for worshipping God through religion is wrong.
And so I agree with you Serenity, there is a great deal of hypocrisy in what they say, and indeed create dogma to get rid of dogma. There is nothing wrong with religion.

Offline John

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Re: Translation and Interpretation
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2013, 11:45:00 AM »
Just to add to this discussion, in any good bible there are footnotes which give alternative meanings to words, there are not many of them and even fewer where the meaning impacts Christian doctrine.


re religion,  isn't that what you're discribing Efengylwr71?  'a set of practises performed without any feeling for god' and the rejection of 'religion' is as old as the O T it's self. Abrah left Ur, because of a relationship with God, the prophets all cried out against the ritualistic practise of religion, even the protestent reformers protested against the practice of empty ritual in the CoE.

Where does it say that it's about relationship? have you never read the promises in the O T that God would give his pepole a new heart, one not 'of stone but of flesh'.  Isn't that talking about a different relationship between God and his people.
Why does Jesus talk about those who have been given to him, bout those who love him that he will live in them, isn't the promise that where 2 or 3 are gathered there he will be all about relationship.

Israel had God's laws to make tem different from the surrounding nations, that they might show jst how good God is. We no longer need those as we can talk about a greater demonstration of hoe good God is and demonstrate it in the way we live.


                                                                John



 


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