Author Topic: Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.  (Read 1152 times)

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Offline francis drake

Re: Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2013, 11:06:51 AM »

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So the blood must have been shed before Jesus actually died for those who had gone before or Jesus went to deliver those who had  died after His resurrection

If Abraham was made righteous or [right with God] there must have been a sacrifice made existing out of our time

In other words the actual shedding of Christs blood was at a "certain time"

Yet the righteous being saved ahead of time

Absolutely.
The lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, although it actually happened 2000 years ago.
Additionally, his blood was not just shed to get us to heaven when we are dead. It was shed to rectify all that Adam did when he opened the door to Satan's intrusion on earth.
It was Adam who let Satan become the God of this world.
It was Jesus who took Adam's place and paid with his blood.
We are now no longer descendants of the first Adam, but descendants through faith of the second Adam, Jesus, just like Abraham was.
We are no longer wrong with God, but right with God, just like Abraham.

At the foundation of the world, the first Adam failed. At the foundation of the world, the second Adam, Jesus, stood in his place. When Jesus originally created this planet, heaven and earth were amalgamated. It was only after Adam rebelled that there was a division made between the two realms. It is through God himself in Jesus Christ, that access was made to return the two together.

That is why Jesus proclaimed, ''The Kingdom of Heaven is nigh unto thee''. ie. the kingdom is here and now, and not just when we are dead.
We have been given the power to overcome what Satan lets loose. We overcome Satan by the Blood of the lamb, and testifying to it. That is the purpose of taking the bread and wine. it isn't just a fancy ceremony that Christians do together. It is about warfare.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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Alien-R

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Re: Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2013, 01:17:55 PM »
Absolutely.
The lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, although it actually happened 2000 years ago.
Additionally, his blood was not just shed to get us to heaven when we are dead. It was shed to rectify all that Adam did when he opened the door to Satan's intrusion on earth.
It was Adam who let Satan become the God of this world.
It was Jesus who took Adam's place and paid with his blood.
We are now no longer descendants of the first Adam, but descendants through faith of the second Adam, Jesus, just like Abraham was.
We are no longer wrong with God, but right with God, just like Abraham.

At the foundation of the world, the first Adam failed. At the foundation of the world, the second Adam, Jesus, stood in his place. When Jesus originally created this planet, heaven and earth were amalgamated. It was only after Adam rebelled that there was a division made between the two realms. It is through God himself in Jesus Christ, that access was made to return the two together.

That is why Jesus proclaimed, ''The Kingdom of Heaven is nigh unto thee''. ie. the kingdom is here and now, and not just when we are dead.
We have been given the power to overcome what Satan lets loose. We overcome Satan by the Blood of the lamb, and testifying to it. That is the purpose of taking the bread and wine. it isn't just a fancy ceremony that Christians do together. It is about warfare.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above and this is my belief so far

Which I suppose predestines those chosen [to commit to Him to be saved] before the foundation of the world

Efengylwr71

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Re: Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2013, 02:35:39 AM »
I personally think that God does not demand the shedding of blood, but that in shedding blood, it proves the greatest demonstration of sacrificial love. Blood is the life force of the body, if you lose too much of it you will obviously die. Therefore it would seem that blood is a very precious thing, be it the blood of an animal or the blood of a human. So it`s not so much that God desires blood (Like some vampire) it`s that by Christ shedding his blood (Which is his life physically speaking) he is giving up his life for those whom he loves, namely us. And as Jesus said "Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends". Jn 15:13 And So Jesus shed his blood (Gave up his life) to pay the price of our sin, and in doing so appeased God`s vengeance against sin (Which he hates, and so as a just God must punish) So God was not so much pleased with Jesus` sacrifice because blood was shed, it was more to do with what Jesus did, sacrifice himself for sinners, because after all does not God hate the shedding of innocent blood
These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.,
Proverbs 6:16
This act of love was so pleasing to God ( who is love) that he was willing to accept that act as payment for sin. So it`s what happens when someone gives their life for another by the shedding of their blood that God is pleased with, sacrificial love, more than demanding blood itself. Although I haven`t put all this together very well, I hope you understand what I`m trying to say.

Alien-R

  • Guest
Re: Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2013, 12:45:46 PM »
I personally think that God does not demand the shedding of blood, but that in shedding blood, it proves the greatest demonstration of sacrificial love. Blood is the life force of the body, if you lose too much of it you will obviously die. Therefore it would seem that blood is a very precious thing, be it the blood of an animal or the blood of a human. So it`s not so much that God desires blood (Like some vampire) it`s that by Christ shedding his blood (Which is his life physically speaking) he is giving up his life for those whom he loves, namely us. And as Jesus said "Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends". Jn 15:13 And So Jesus shed his blood (Gave up his life) to pay the price of our sin, and in doing so appeased God`s vengeance against sin (Which he hates, and so as a just God must punish) So God was not so much pleased with Jesus` sacrifice because blood was shed, it was more to do with what Jesus did, sacrifice himself for sinners, because after all does not God hate the shedding of innocent blood
These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.,
Proverbs 6:16
This act of love was so pleasing to God ( who is love) that he was willing to accept that act as payment for sin. So it`s what happens when someone gives their life for another by the shedding of their blood that God is pleased with, sacrificial love, more than demanding blood itself. Although I haven`t put all this together very well, I hope you understand what I`m trying to say.


Re: Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.

Ive had a particular thing coming back to me recently and I was reluctant to share it really, but I suppose it ties in with this topic



Psalm 24 [ from memory ] "Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord, he who has clean hands and a pure heart who has nmot lifted his hands to an idol or sworn  deceitfully

So it relates to this in a way

and the question arises thus

Someone recently posted "we have no need to walk the hill as it was done for us"

It was all done on calvary and there is no further sacrifice ...you see

So in affect its the old argument

We have no need of any sacrificial giving, no need of any effort on our part, we have no need of any activity .....as

Jesus has already paid the ultimate   sacrifice

So in effect this is a one way thing



So this post I suppose is redirecting from "Sacrifice" the blood TO our sacrifice - the blood

It can also relate to people who say "you have already been healed .....just receive your healing"

"you have already been given everything you need ......receive it"

Which can lead to ....."haven't received it ? you need more faith" is this error of teaching ?

Is there any need of sacrifice on our part ?

Is there any need of any kind of "uphill journey" ? afteral "its all been done for us"

Alien-R

  • Guest
Re: Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2013, 12:56:57 PM »
Re: Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.

I will also add two verses of many that seem to denote / donate that I  did nothing for my salvation yet I was saved while still in my sin

and relating to Psalm 24 [ from memory ] "Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord, he who has clean hands and a pure heart who has nmot lifted his hands to an idol or sworn  deceitfully


Colossians 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

And

Ephesians 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, has made us alive together with Christ, (by grace you are saved;)

so what has changed since I was saved ?

why does the ownership depend on us after salvation

when the ownership is Jesus ? before salvation

people say "well  its Jesus in you"

which leads to "anything I do must be Jesus" which is an error



So why the uphill struggle ?

Do I say "Jesus paid the price ?"

OR do I say "Luke 14:28  "Count the cost ?

Efengylwr71

  • Guest
Re: Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2013, 03:11:15 PM »
Re: Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.
Ive had a particular thing coming back to me recently and I was reluctant to share it really, but I suppose it ties in with this topic

Psalm 24 [ from memory ] "Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord, he who has clean hands and a pure heart who has nmot lifted his hands to an idol or sworn  deceitfully
So it relates to this in a way
and the question arises thus
Someone recently posted "we have no need to walk the hill as it was done for us"
It was all done on calvary and there is no further sacrifice ...you see
So in affect its the old argument
We have no need of any sacrificial giving, no need of any effort on our part, we have no need of any activity .....as
Jesus has already paid the ultimate   sacrifice
So in effect this is a one way thing

So this post I suppose is redirecting from "Sacrifice" the blood TO our sacrifice - the blood
It can also relate to people who say "you have already been healed .....just receive your healing"
"you have already been given everything you need ......receive it"
Which can lead to ....."haven't received it ? you need more faith" is this error of teaching ?
Is there any need of sacrifice on our part ?
Is there any need of any kind of "uphill journey" ? afteral "its all been done for us"
Why do people who teach such fallacies and spread such lies about salvation, and how is it that people fall for such lies. Jesus is crystal clear on this matter.
Then Jesus told his disciples, ?If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Mt 16:24
"But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance. Lk 8:15
And Paul echoes that many times.
But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. 1 Timothy 6:11
Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:11
If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
if we endure, we will also reign with him;
2 Timothy 2:11
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 1 Corinthians 9:24
Now there are just a few examples of how false the "I don`t need to do anything" attitude is. Tell me, how is anyone able to think such a thing when the bible is FULL of such examples, I just don`t get it.

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