Author Topic: Was Jesus always God ?  (Read 2375 times)

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Edwin

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Re: Was Jesus always God ?
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2013, 01:55:15 PM »

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Efengylwr71.

In your Reply #4 you say,

he reveals himself as God in the flesh by saying that his words are spirit and life, and since the words came out of "His mouth" we can safely assume "He" was "God in the flesh"

What then is your understanding of ?

Jhn 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 

And also,

Phl 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 

"the name that is above every name" can only be that of God.

How can you give someone what they already have ?

Every blessing.

Edwin.

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Edwin

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Re: Was Jesus always God ?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2013, 02:16:59 PM »
Serenity.

In your reply # 5 you quote verses from Hebrews

Here are some more,

Hbr 10:5 Consequently, when Christ  came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; 
Hbr 10:6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure. 
Hbr 10:7 Then I said, 'Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.'" 
Hbr 10:8 When he said above, "You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law), 
Hbr 10:9 then he added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 

How is it possible for He who is God, to address someone else and say "I have come to do your will, O God" ?

Also Jesus said, "to my God and your God.'"

Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Bless you.

Edwin.


 

Edwin

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Re: Was Jesus always God ?
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2013, 03:15:19 PM »
evangelist.
 
I refer to your reply #6, and wish to comment as follows.

John 8:24 & 28 refer to His forth coming Crucifixion.

John 8:58 refers to the past, in other words "before" Abraham. 

The remaining 4 verses must be read within their context, where it becomes clear that Jesus is only confirming

His humanity, in other words, that He is "The Christ", "The Messiah", "Jesus of Nazareth."   

Jhn 13:18 I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, 'He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.'
Jhn 13:19 I am telling you this now, before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he. 

In other words, I am the one who is to be sacrificed.

Jhn 18:4 Then Jesus, knowing all that would happen to him, came forward and said to them, "Whom do you seek?" 
Jhn 18:5 They answered him, "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus said to them, "I am he."  Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them. 
Jhn 18:6 When Jesus  said to them, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground. 

Jhn 18:7 So he asked them again, "Whom do you seek?" And they said, "Jesus of Nazareth." 
Jhn 18:8 Jesus answered, "I told you that I am he. So, if you seek me, let these men go." 

Jhn 4:25 The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things." 
Jhn 4:26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am he." 

Every blessing.

Edwin.

Efengylwr71

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Re: Was Jesus always God ?
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2013, 08:35:40 PM »
Efengylwr71.
In your Reply #4 you say,
he reveals himself as God in the flesh by saying that his words are spirit and life, and since the words came out of "His mouth" we can safely assume "He" was "God in the flesh"
What then is your understanding of ?
Jhn 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 
And also,
Phl 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 
"the name that is above every name" can only be that of God.
How can you give someone what they already have ?
Every blessing.
Edwin.
As to the first point, I believe it proves what I was already saying, that Jesus is God in the flesh. And Jesus the man cannot speak words that are of his own authority, because he is one with the father. They are inseparable. The second point is quite similar really, God exalts the son because they are one, so it is as if God is glorifying himself through the son, and in turn the son glorifies himself through the father, and this is done so that it isn`t simply self glorification, an ingenious attribute of God as the trinity. And of course you can give something to somebody that they already have. If someone is rich, and they have 10,000,000 pounds in the bank, and you add another 5,000,000 to that, then you are giving them what they already have, you are adding money to money, as you might add grace to grace, and glorification to glorification. And in the same way, you may exalt someone who is already exalted. You can exalt Jesus by saying "Blessed be the name of Jesus" So are you giving him something that he doesn`t already have, no, you are adding something to that which he already has, and it is that simple really. But like I have said before, it is impossible to have a clear understanding on these points if you separate Jesus the man, from Jesus the divine son of God. When we do this, we encounter all kinds of theological confusion and ambiguity, and then it`s hard if not impossible to put the pieces together, theologically speaking.

Offline clark thompson

Re: Was Jesus always God ?
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2013, 01:12:07 AM »
I believe Jesus was always God even though before He became man He was known by the name of Jesus.
One day I will be home

Alien-R

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Re: Was Jesus always God ?
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2013, 02:00:39 AM »
John 6:38 NIV

38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

So do you think Jesus was Jesus before He came to earth or was He God ?

I mean Jesus is Emanuel "God with us"

Edwin

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Re: Was Jesus always God ?
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2013, 12:38:25 PM »
clark thompson.

You say,

"before He became man He was known by the name of Jesus."

Please quote chapter and verse in support of this.

Thank you.

Edwin.

Alien-R

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Re: Was Jesus always God ?
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2013, 12:53:43 PM »
By the way clark thompson. I love you studies , please continue with them  :)

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