Author Topic: An apparent contradiction.  (Read 594 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Edwin

  • Guest
An apparent contradiction.
« on: May 27, 2013, 12:00:54 PM »

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
I would value your help in resolving an apparent contradiction.

It would appear from the following verse, that Jesus approves of repetition in prayer

Luk 18:7 And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? 

But then ?

Mat 6:7   "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

Thank you.

Edwin.



Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Alien-R

  • Guest
Re: An apparent contradiction.
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 02:53:04 PM »
I would value your help in resolving an apparent contradiction.

It would appear from the following verse, that Jesus approves of repetition in prayer

Luk 18:7 And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? 

But then ?

Mat 6:7   "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

Thank you.

Edwin.

Well to explain this , lets put it alongside "Salvation"

Although I am saved , I am also "being saved" and I will also "be saved"

Matthew 24:13  but those who stand firm to the End shall be saved.



Now although my prayers are answered I need to be persistent and to stand firm


As in Luke 18:1-8 NIV  The Parable of the Persistent Widow

In essence our prayers are answered , they "being answered" and "they will be answered"


Efengylwr71

  • Guest
Re: An apparent contradiction.
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 02:58:28 PM »
I would value your help in resolving an apparent contradiction.
It would appear from the following verse, that Jesus approves of repetition in prayer
Luk 18:7 And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? 
But then ?
Mat 6:7   "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
Thank you.
Edwin.
What Jesus is saying is not to pray in a mantra style, where you repeat the same few phrases over and over again, and by putting the mental effort in over many hours sometimes, expecting to get something out of it, since we put so much into it. This however is deceptively vain, because it makes you think that you are getting from God what you are putting out to him, instead of God being the provider through a relationship based on faith and trust in his word. But asking God day and night to help with a situation that may be troublesome or difficult or painful is not the same thing, since it is a cry from the heart. And it`s obvious that sometimes we lack faith, and so what Jesus is saying is to not give up on the providence of God, if he seems to not answer for whatever reason, because there are times in our life`s where this sort of thing can happen, when we start to say "where is God" and all that. So I think there`s a vast difference in crying from the heart day and night for God to relieve your situation, compared with spouting out repetitive phrases (As Buddhist and Catholics do - No offence against any Catholics of course, I`m merely pointing out the repetitive prayers that you have, such as the rosary, and the divine mercy prayers) So to me it is as simple as that, and Jesus is telling us that we don`t gain God`s favour from our own vain efforts and attempts in reaching him, because salvation is not based on our work, but on the work of God.

Alien-R

  • Guest
Re: An apparent contradiction.
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 03:03:31 PM »


Quote
Mat 6:7   "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

This is the heart of man praying words to be seen as good in public, see: Matthew 3:7

The pharisees a political party wore garments and Phylacteries to give an outward appearance of Godliness, these Phylacteries were on the arm and the head and were a symbol of self righteouness

these outward appearances of Godliness were no more than repetitive words and religious petitions seen to help the growth of this political party and its following

Alien-R

  • Guest
Re: An apparent contradiction.
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 03:15:18 PM »
Context


The Lord's Prayer

Matthew 6:7 

5And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the
synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Truly I say to you,
They have their reward. 6But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have
 shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret
shall reward you openly.




This relates to the pharisees in particular who stood on street corners and synagogues to be seen in public,

Edwin

  • Guest
Re: An apparent contradiction.
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2013, 04:42:26 PM »
Thank you all for your helpful comments which are much appreciated.

Edwin.

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: An apparent contradiction.
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2013, 04:47:42 PM »
Yes again like lots of things in the faith....it doesnt matter what the prayer itself is, or how many times its spoken...Jesus did teach everyone the 'Our Father'....its the heart motives and desire behind the praying that makes all the difference, IMO.

Re: An apparent contradiction.
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2013, 03:28:06 AM »
    All the scriptures have hidden meanings. Things in secret and they are not written or spoken openly. People who pray for things of this world are vain. When you pray say like this. Lord, I know you bleed and died for me so henseforth let me live for the and thy namesake. When I read the scriptures, let me understand with your thoughts. Give me ears to hear your glorious voice Lord and let me see the majesty of your kingdom. Let my riches be from your hidden treasure. Remove the afflictions set upon me by this world. Give me wisdom but not as these people of this world but from you wise council. Remove the deceit from my heart and fill it with truth.

   All the bible is written in earthly words and stories but it all has hidden meanings. Hidden meanings are said to be only spoken behind closed doors because they are in secrete and they use the word closet because it is in the closet the robes are hanging. The robes of honor, majesty and seemless robe of righteousness. When the things hidden are revealed it is said they are shouted from the rooftop. The rooftop because it is above the church and all can hear when a man shouts out the things from there. It is on the rooftop where the cross it placed.

  So Jesus is saying, don't ask for the things of this world but ask and desire the things of God, these things hidden in the scriptures and God will reward you with understanding.

   The closet is also where the bride awaits the Lords return after she has been prepared by the angels of God.

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !