Author Topic: Signs  (Read 1611 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline John

Re: Signs
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2013, 07:40:17 PM »

NEWSVIEW PRESENTS

NewsView

Your View - thats NewView


My problem with signs is that in Revelation it talks about the false prophets doing marvellous signs and wonders that desive the world.

As you say Alien, signs should point towards Jesus, yet how often do the signs etc seen by those claiming to be Christian point to themselfs and they have thousands of followers.

Signs are a double edged sword as the onlooker has to know their bible well to be able to determine whether this sign or that sign is of God.


                                                                      John

NEWSVIEW PRESENTS

NewsView

Your View - thats NewView


Offline Amadeus

Re: Signs
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2013, 04:16:27 AM »
Can you have vision in blind faith ?

Everyone has faith, but in the case of too many their faith is misdirected or blind. If a person's vision is based on a blind or misdirected faith, it will be a the wrong vision. For example If our vision were based on what people used to call the American dream rather than on Jesus, we would definitely come up short in the end.


Alien-R

  • Guest
Re: Signs
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2013, 10:46:08 AM »

Everyone has faith, but in the case of too many their faith is misdirected or blind. If a person's vision is based on a blind or misdirected faith, it will be a the wrong vision. For example If our vision were based on what people used to call the American dream rather than on Jesus, we would definitely come up short in the end.



thanks Amadeus

Yes everyone has faith....I had faith before being "saved" that I might live to do certain things

CHURCH VISION

Well when I hear "Vision or Division" I see a Church of people "a community" coming together to "put a plan into action" and this draws the people together, it might be "build a wall " or "Buy a brick" extend the Church or "lay the tarmac" lets "buy new plastic windows to view the community" but these things are "temporal" and could be pulled down in years to come

 

When I say "Blind faith" I.m thinking of "the Christian" believer, well I'm thinking of my own experiences

Hebrews 11:1

Quite often when going ahead with something you may not know quite what you are doing,

For example :

BLIND FAITH

Thirty years ago I new that God was doing something and that I would be working outdoors, but no clue as to what and when and how

W ith no money, equipment or transport I was somehow meant to begin "self employment" and I did'nt even know what that meant or how do go about it



Years ago when "Christianfaithwalk" began the same thing applied

And people often asked  or ask "what is your vision ?"

And I would or will answer "no idea"



I suppose that when God calls you to do something you simply have no idea what its about, you do not feel equipped and you do not have the provision

SIGNS

I have no doubt that Elijah did'nt realise what "going to the poor widow was about !" how would he know that it might be seen as a sign about "going to the gentiles" and about "the crumbs feeding the dogs under the table" Mark 7:24-30  or should we say "salvation to the gentiles"

Now we look back at that and we can see it as a sign of things not yet seen or the evidence of

When we see a "Christian" we might see an outward sign of that

When we look at the last days we might see outward signs of things going on that are not yet seen


VISION Three point package

I'm not sure where this "vision" comes from SEE:  Success and Prosperity

When I think of signs I think not of vision "which is a premade picture of what your amining at"...but I think of "evidence that is unseen being glimpsed at, not by the person concerned but by others

But when I think of "vision" it is often referred to as "a pre constructed idea or package"



I think it comes from "directorships of companies and marketing"

Where you have to have a plan before you step out of the boat

No doubt  people today would ask [before stepping out of a boat ]"have you got a safety and health proceedure ready ? life guard ? inflatable air bags, ?  dingy ? insurance policy ? have you signed the relevant no claims forms ? no liability forms ?

But sometimes when you have a "vison" it might be of "helping the needy" or "providing for society" but you have no idea how or when or what"

BLIND FAITH Proverbs 3:6

So to me true "Faith" is blind  because God is doing it with your co operation

Vision is limited or non existent with the person "co operating"

"Signs are a natural occurrence observed by onlookers"



To me when people ask "what is your vision"

they are speaking in worldly terms

And so I say "Blind Faith"



MY VISION

I could say however  "well my vision as a Christian and my Church is to see the entire community saved and for me to become a minister of that Church in that community"

well that might sound great and obviously it must be in "Gods Will ? "

but then again might it be equally Gods will that "I get my inner self sorted out first by "cleaning that old ladies toilet" or to "spend my life praying for that community even though I may never see everyone saved" and Gods plan being that I did what He wanted ?


MY THREE POINT PLAN

I might say "I have a vision that "This site becomes the pinnacle and catalyst of the future and that it becomes the spearhead of Gods will

my three point plan might be "to put the necessary money into an account" for future provision" 2. to align it alongside my business in order to capitalize and implement future development, 3. to have it as one of the "top networks" and to proceeed with advertising revenues to ensure future ongoing revenue



But then I would ask "Is that my plan ?" or "Gods ?"



So when I say "Blind Faith"

I mean "doing what God wants" by co operating with Him, with no real idea about "how, what,where, when"

And that can be "scarey" it can bring "fear" because you really have to put things in Gods hands and trust in Him

And that to me is what "Christian ongoing faith is"



I hear people reciting : Proverbs 29:18

Where there is no vision, the people perish...

But the "Vision here is prophecy"as too the New Testament prophesying is often referred to as "preaching"

And in this the "preaching and teaching of the word"

And you can also align this alongside  Hosea 4:6 but then again this is often read as

My people die through lack of knowledge [of the word]

but it can read "I will destroy my people because they are ignorant" see : Isaiah 5:13



So I once was blind but now I see ? yes Lord

But what do I see ? yes I see the Lord high and lifted up

So I am blinded to walk in faith in " co operation" with Him, to do "what He wants"


"What Can I see ?"

well ... to know that I need a "sign" to point me in the right direction in "Blind Faith" Hebrews 11:1

Who is my "Sign ?"



Isaiah 7:14  and He shall give you a sign and His name shall be called Immanuel, which means God with us , revealed in us"

A sign









http://www.christianfaithandfellowshipforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4422.0.html

Offline Amadeus

Re: Signs
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2013, 03:06:25 AM »
Yes, Alien, in a sense our faith toward God is blind, but it is not completely lost and without hope. God has opened our eyes to see things every now and again to encourage us to keep moving in the right direction. Our testimonies are examples of what we have been shown.

We see, but until our vision is completely clear, we see through a glass darkly. When we do not lean too much on our own understanding we will then learn through the Holy Spirit and the Word to "see" better.

In the natural, we were really born blind to the really meaty things of the Spirit. Somewhere along our way we were given a glimpse of something better and we were "drawn" toward it.

If we have grown since we first saw a bit of the Light of God, then our vision has improved. Will we be able to see God clearly before the dirt is thrown over our face? I cannot answer that with a "No', because for God all things are possible. The obstacles really standing between us and a clearer view of God and the things of God are "US", you and me.

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

Alien-R

  • Guest
Re: Signs
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2013, 12:30:02 PM »
Yes, Alien, in a sense our faith toward God is blind, but it is not completely lost and without hope. God has opened our eyes to see things every now and again to encourage us to keep moving in the right direction. Our testimonies are examples of what we have been shown.

We see, but until our vision is completely clear, we see through a glass darkly. When we do not lean too much on our own understanding we will then learn through the Holy Spirit and the Word to "see" better.

In the natural, we were really born blind to the really meaty things of the Spirit. Somewhere along our way we were given a glimpse of something better and we were "drawn" toward it.

If we have grown since we first saw a bit of the Light of God, then our vision has improved. Will we be able to see God clearly before the dirt is thrown over our face? I cannot answer that with a "No', because for God all things are possible. The obstacles really standing between us and a clearer view of God and the things of God are "US", you and me.

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30


Amen yes, Until my will is His

Curiosus

  • Guest
Re: Signs
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2013, 10:57:09 AM »
I often see signs or signposts of God working in my life and in others. 
I am open to seeing these signs in any way possible. 
As God is God of the impossible, keep your eyes open wide.

Offline Amadeus

Re: Signs
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2013, 04:09:18 AM »
I often see signs or signposts of God working in my life and in others. 
I am open to seeing these signs in any way possible. 
As God is God of the impossible, keep your eyes open wide.


The spiritual eyes, are the ones you mean, I believe. A naturally blind man can sometimes see the things of God more clearly than a preacher with 20/20 vision.

Curiosus

  • Guest
Re: Signs
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2013, 02:13:17 PM »
Quote
The spiritual eyes, are the ones you mean, I believe.

Yes it is.
However i dont believe that spiritual insight is kept within the realms of the spiritual. 
For example, you can see signs from God which are spiritual, manifested in a physical way.


Quote
A naturally blind man can sometimes see the things of God more clearly than a preacher with 20/20 vision.

Completely agree.



NEWSVIEW PRESENTS

NewsView

Your View - thats NewView