Author Topic: When did the New Covenant begin ?  (Read 1895 times)

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Offline Guardian

When did the New Covenant begin ?
« on: April 10, 2013, 01:35:14 PM »

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Mark 14:22-24 Or put it another way 'When did the Old Covenant end' Matthew 5:17-21


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Serenity

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Re: When did the New Covenant begin ?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 02:29:32 PM »
John 19:30

When he had received the drink, Jesus said, ?It is finished.? With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

and todays scripture from biblegateway

Romans 5

You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.


I think it was at the point of completion of what Jesus came to do.

'It is finished'  but moreover after He had resurrected AND ascended into heaven.

Efengylwr71

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Re: When did the New Covenant begin ?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 03:57:34 PM »
I find that the two are indelibly intertwined.
1.And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. Jn 3:14-15
2.Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Mt 5:17-18
3.And the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven 16and said, ?By myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of hisd enemies, 18and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice. Genesis 22:15-19
4.And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. (He was priest of God Most High.) 19And he blessed him and said,
?Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
who has delivered your enemies into your hand!? Genesis 14:18-21
5.This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, 16who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life.
For it is witnessed of him, You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.? Hebrews 7:15-18.

So really, where does one end and the other begin. Did Jesus free us from being accountable if we break the law, no, but rather he payed the price for the breaking of the law, but that doesn`t mean we are not accountable for breaking the law.
6. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality. Colossians 3:25
7.He will render to each one according to his works: 7to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8but for those who are self-seekinga and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. Romans 2:6-9

So it seems that the law of the old covenant still stands in the new covenant, although the price of breaking the law has been paid. And note how Melchizedek and Jesus are identified as a parallel in the bread and the wine, I kind of like that one. And in regards to Abraham, are not new stars of  heaven and new grains of sand being born today and will become a part of the covenant. Remember, the covenant God made with Abraham was forever, spanning from the time it was made (old covenant) until today (new covenant) and unto eternity. So to me, it is one indelible thread through the two.

Serenity

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Re: When did the New Covenant begin ?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 05:59:59 PM »
Abolish and fulfill are different words.

Abolish gets rid of something, fulfill completes something. 
So when Jesus came to fulfill, that wasn't to remove something, it was to make something complete. 
I can imagine the New Covenant began when it was borne in Gods mind, not like He doesn't know what was, is and is to come is it? 
In my opinion :)

If so, is that at the creation of the world?

Efengylwr71

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Re: When did the New Covenant begin ?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2013, 07:25:20 PM »
Quote Serenity
Quote
Abolish and fulfill are different words.
Ok, fair point. But tell me, did Jesus abolish the law? And also, did he fulfill the law?
So in effect, though abolish and fulfill are different words, Jesus didn`t abolish the law, and at the same time he fulfilled the law. So can you see my point of them being intertwined. Jesus IS the law (given by Moses) in the form of a man. The old and the new in unison. And all I`m saying is that the new covenant was there in symbolic form in the old  covenant, or should I say the old testament, if indeed you can use that name for the old covenant.

Mike

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Re: When did the New Covenant begin ?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 08:04:23 PM »
I reckon that the old covenant ended when Jesus was "finally taken up" after his transfiguration and the new covent (the kingdom of heaven) began when the Holy Spirit came down immediately afterwards at Pentecost.
I say this because in Matthew 11 we read that even the least in the kingdom of heaven would be greater than John the Baptist ..... and that would be because John the Baptist died prior to Pentecost. (Indicating that Pentecost was the beginning, in earnest, of the kindom of heaven, that JtB missed out on)
Another relevance would be Jeremiah 31:33 indicating that the old covenant (which was characterised by written words and tablets of stone) would be uplifted to a new and higher spiritual level by words "written in man's heart" (precisely the work began in a very special way by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.)
Many other scriptures accord with that scenario, including Christ's Sermon of the Mount.

Efengylwr71

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Re: When did the New Covenant begin ?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 10:35:19 PM »
Quote Mike
Quote
I reckon that the old covenant ended when Jesus was "finally taken up" after his transfiguration
I don`t think the old covenant ended, rather it was fulfilled.

Offline Amadeus

Re: When did the New Covenant begin ?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 10:42:13 PM »
Since without the power of the Holy Ghost, no one could approach God more closely than previously. Wouldn't the gift of the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) make for a dividing point? Even the apostles still ran away in fear prior to that and they had walked with Jesus for 3? years. In Acts 1:8 it was still only a promise. In Acts 2 when Peter said "this is that" referring to the words of the prophet, Joel, it had happened already.

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