Author Topic: Crucified  (Read 1288 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Alien-R

  • Guest
Re: Crucified
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 11:47:47 PM »

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
do you think there's differences here ?

1. Laying down as in "taking up your Cross daily ?"   Luke 9:23 NIV

2. Going to the Cross for forgiveness, repentance  1 John 1:9  Acts 3:19

3. Being Crucified   Galatians 2:20

what are the differences between these three examples ?

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Offline Seeker

Re: Crucified
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2016, 10:20:29 AM »
Ah, yes, obligation is an issue.  I think it's a bit like finances.  I no longer don't buy into tithing, but do buy the idea that we are stewards of all we have & are, and that there's a grace (privilege) in giving (2 Cor.8).  Factors include love, resources, faith, wisdom, generosity: ie we make judgments calls with what we have.  Sometimes that call is rightly, I believe, to treat ourselves.  To give away a coat might be meet, but to give away both is folly.  Nor, I think, must our coats be shabby.  Same goes, I think, for time.

Crucifying oneself is, biblically, a means of aligning oneself with the new life, disconnecting from the old inner attitude.  It isn't self-flagellation, nor of decreasing from human to worm status, but is about spiritual enrichment, incidental to finance & social status.

To love your neighbour as yourself, you need to love yourself as God does.  Wellbeing is good, if unhooked from the selfism that Paul Vitz warned of (Psychology as Religion: The Cult of Self Worship).  As C S Lewis said, to love himself fortunately meant to wish himself well, not to like himself - we are mixtures of likeable & unlikeable.  We are to wish ourselves, and others, well, and "within reason" (spiritual judgement calls) help ourselves before the other person, or the other person before ourselves, as the situation seem to require.  Deferring is not always right.  Best helping a tyrant might mean not doing their bidding: our prime subordination (slavery) is to God, not to others.  This is what we are crucified unto, and true emancipation.


Interesting thread. How can I love myself, as God loves me. Yet the part in the Bible that says to love our neighbour as yourself, seems to imply that we love ourselves? The verse below sprang to mind; 2 Timothy 3:2

'For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,'

So maybe it is a matter of context?

Oh another verse has sprung to mind;

John 12:25 ' He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.'

Is that just referring to loving one's life in this world - or loving your life full stop?

I do understand that how can I help another if I am burned out/worn out. I know from past experience when my son was younger if I was ill I needed help looking after him.

As for helping others I suspect the motive of why we help could be important? People help for lots of different reasons; some because they genuinely care - out of Love, but there are other reasons. Some because they need to be needed. Others help to be seen, I've heard of cases where some have reached burn out by doing lots of good things, but only the things that were visible (as in they admitted they only took on things that they would be noticed doing).

More recently I have read of a person who thought they were doing things, helping people out of Love, but when they questioned their own motives further they discovered that it was actually out of fear. They feared that if they didn't do such things that they would not be good enough.

Interesting verse in Proverbs about helping people;

Proverbs 19:19 'A man of great wrath will suffer punishment;
For if you rescue him, you will have to do it again.'

Thinking on it further - taking up one's cross daily. If someone basically told me that they had to suffer to help me, they were doing such only out of a sense of duty - to win favour (whatever), I would feel as if they didn't really care, that the help they were giving/offering was not from the heart. Not sure I wording this right, but some do make a big song and dance out of helping and expect maybe to receive praise for such. Yes it is good they are helping, but I would not really want to be helped by such a person, as they have made it clear what a burden those they are helping are (and yes I've met people like this).

In contrast I have come across those that do genuinely seem to care, the difference is amazing! A small act of kindness, not for show, the impact is amazing, the difference being the motive. The first described above would help, go out of their way, but would make sure everyone knows such, I would be just another burden - even a project. The second example comes from a root of Love, it is not done to be seen, no big song and dance, just a genuine caring, I don't have words to express how much impact the second Love rooted one has.

Yes I understand that Jesus suffered for us, such was done out of Love though?

Well that might have been a bit rambling, sometimes hard to word.

Offline BashfulAnthony

Re: Crucified
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2016, 01:50:36 PM »


I have recently been in hospital for a quite serious operation, and since have been only partially mobile.. A neighbour of mine, whom I know only very casually, came round a while ago and brought me a rather large box of groceries, "to save me having to shop,"  as he put it.  It was out of the blue, and a true act of kindness.  When I said, "you needn't have, " he replied, " it's called being neighbourly."
BA

Offline Seeker

Re: Crucified
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2016, 06:48:17 PM »

I have recently been in hospital for a quite serious operation, and since have been only partially mobile.. A neighbour of mine, whom I know only very casually, came round a while ago and brought me a rather large box of groceries, "to save me having to shop,"  as he put it.  It was out of the blue, and a true act of kindness.  When I said, "you needn't have, " he replied, " it's called being neighbourly."

That sounds like a genuine act of kindness and truly amazing - I love hearing stuff like that :D Hope you get better soon Anthony and Happy New Year.

Offline BashfulAnthony

Re: Crucified
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2016, 01:38:08 AM »
That sounds like a genuine act of kindness and truly amazing - I love hearing stuff like that :D Hope you get better soon Anthony and Happy New Year.

A happy and peaceful New year, Seeker  -  and to all on here.
BA

Offline Seeker

Re: Crucified
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2016, 10:26:08 AM »
Matthew 11:30 says ' For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.?

I just wondered how that fit in? As we are to take up our cross daily, be glad of sufferings, die to self, etc.

Offline BashfulAnthony

Re: Crucified
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2016, 07:03:18 AM »
Matthew 11:30 says ' For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.?

I just wondered how that fit in? As we are to take up our cross daily, be glad of sufferings, die to self, etc.

It may sound simplistic, but I think we can only do our best:  how can we do more?
BA

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Crucified
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2016, 11:55:31 PM »
Maybe stop doing is the point.  Sometimes less is more. 
Being crucified with Christ.....is it a one off thing, as in Jesus isn't still hanging on His cross is He?  so is it something we have to do for all our life, or is it something once done, it is done, no need to carry on doing?

I dont see why it is somewhere we would need to stay, why would we need to keep on suffering?

Paraphrasing some scripture here but......

If He sets you free you are free indeed

If you repent and believe in Jesus Christ, be baptised then you cross from death to eternal life.


Very paraphrased, but message is there....so if Jesus was crucified, died and rose again and ascended into heaven, living an eternal life, is no longer on the cross, why do people have to stay at the cross and not move on beyond that? 




I bring this up again because it still needs asking not just into the forums, but to ourselves....so if Jesus was crucified, died and rose again and ascended into heaven, living an eternal life, is no longer on the cross, why do people have to stay at the cross and not move on beyond that?


Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !