Author Topic: John the baptist  (Read 2171 times)

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Efengylwr71

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Re: John The Baptist
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2013, 10:28:26 PM »

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Where did the baptism by water come from? Did it not come from John the Baptist himself, or is it mentioned elsewhere in the bible. However, Jesus himself was baptized by John, although he had no need of it "Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14John would have prevented him, saying, ?I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?? 15But Jesus answered him, ?Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.? Then he consented. 16And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him,b and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17and behold, a voice from heaven said, ?This is my beloved Son,c with whom I am well pleased.?Mt 3:13-18
So it is obvious that the holy spirit is linked to "Water baptism" And as a result Jesus himself carried on the act of baptism in "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"Mt 28:19. So surely this is what the water means in Jn 3:5. For the bible itself (and not me) backs it up. So it doesn`t matter how interesting or though provoking something is, it has to be biblically correct, has it not?

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Alien-R

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Re: John The Baptist
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2013, 10:32:21 PM »
I agree Effen but I see the link here that Edwin has made re: OT salvation from the old topic

Indeed Nicodemus must be baptized to be saved, even though he too was under the Old Covenant.  ?



Efengylwr71

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Re: John The Baptist
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2013, 10:51:00 PM »
I agree Effen but I see the link here that Edwin has made re: OT salvation from the old topic
Indeed Nicodemus must be baptized to be saved, even though he too was under the Old Covenant.
Would you say that we are not still under the old covenant. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Mt 5:17-21. So we are still held accountable if we break the 10 commandments are we not? I think that Old testament salvation goes back to a topic that was previously discussed. Although they were of the old covenant, they are still saved by the new in "For Christ also sufferedb once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19in whichc he went and proclaimedd to the spirits in prison, 20becausee they formerly did not obey, when God?s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him." 1 Peter 3:18-23 So there again we have it, the souls of the old covenant heard the new through Jesus descending to those in prison or "Sheol" and were saved in this way. So I`m sorry, I don`t see where amniotic fluid comes into any of what Iv`e just mentioned. Amniotic fluid has nothing to do with the life of the spirit, be it OT or NT, and is linked to physical birth only.

Alien-R

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Re: John The Baptist
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2013, 10:55:29 PM »
Yes I see that and I'm not disagreeing with anyone

But I also see that old testament believers were saved in relationship with God and how the baptism then could symbolise the "said mentioned fuid" instead of water baptism (which I don't think was done in the Jewish faith


Alien-R

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Re: John The Baptist
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2013, 11:04:28 PM »
Im still going to investigate this at some point to see how people come to this conclusion

Its certainly interesting

I agree with you effen and I also see where edwin is coming from

I have to get on now

bbs

Efengylwr71

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Re: John The Baptist
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2013, 11:06:07 PM »
Yes I see that and I'm not disagreeing with anyone
But I also see that old testament believers were saved in relationship with God and how the baptism then could symbolise the "said mentioned fuid" instead of water baptism (which I don't think was done in the Jewish faith
But that doesn`t mean that you can liken the amniotic fluid to that of water baptism. Water baptism brings forth the holy spirit due to it`s symbolic status and what it represents as in Mt 3:13. So I`m sorry, I don`t see where it fits at all, or where the bible mentions or accommodates such an idea.

Serenity

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Re: John The Baptist
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2013, 11:07:54 PM »
Quote
So it doesn`t matter how interesting or though provoking something is, it has to be biblically correct, has it not?

Yes of course :)

Offline Amadeus

Re: John The Baptist
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2013, 10:36:36 PM »
Doesn't splitting hairs on the statement regarding John the Baptist leave us in need of further explanation on one point? How did God treat people in the OT (prior to new covenant) compared to how He treated them in the NT (under the old covenant)?

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34

Is the kingdom of heaven the key?

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